Hi everyone UTV
I have wanted to write this post since the Liverpool game but I thought I would leave it a little longer to see what developed as I was pro 4-3-3 but am now swaying away from that after Newcastle.
Now here it is my case for 4-4-2.
I was shocked in the first halves of the Liverpool and now Newcastle games.We seemed to have no get up and go and have been sloppy giving away possession.No penetration and no end product at the end of our attacks.Our CMs gave the ball away to cheaply and so did our full backs.
Our full backs have been bombing forward exposing the back 2 and also exposing space behind themselves.This leaves us wide open for pacey forwards and good counter attacking football.
We seem to be always conceding and never keeping a clean sheet and our home form is a no show IMPO.
I know Lambert seems to know what he is doing so I think if he can’t see it by now then we are in the mire.
I think 4-4-2 would be the right way to go at this point.We need shape,stability,organisation,width and less goals conceded.I feel the 4-4-2 formation would give our young firecrackers all of this plus giving much needed protection to our full backs and have 4 in midfield in front of our back four.
I know Lambert wants to play nice football but when you have young inexperienced players who come up against the Premier Leagues experienced finest an open formation can be football suicide.
I really feel a 4-4-2 of
Guzan,Lowton,Vlaar,Clark/Baker,Luna,Agbonlahor,Westwood,Delph,Albrighton,Kozak,Benteke(Weimann contesting striker position) would be better.
I think Nzogbia would have a part to play to contesting the LM position.Would Bacuna or Tonev fit into the LM or RM positions?.
I just think this would stabilise,give shape,width and protection a good starting block for the younger lions what are your opinions?
All the best UTV….
Good post, I agree with 4-4-2, although Id have Sylla instead of Westwood. Sylla can do a great holding job, breaking up play as well as pass while Delph has the ability to bomb forward and link up with the attackers. Im wearing a little thin of Westwoods side to side motion, some of the worst players in the league can do that job.
Id like to see Tonev battling it out with Albrighton for a wide position too.
Tonev or Bacuna should be able to play LM or RM if tried.To be adaptable to new positions is a thing these days UTV
Weren’t Bacuna played on the right side (both RB & RM) for F.C Groningen? He actually appeared quite comfortable RB v Liverpool
So we can play this 4-4-2 formation and have the players to do it.Kozak and Benteke upfront would be powerful UTV
Bacuna or Tonev over Albrighton all day long.
Agree though, 4-4-2 would give us better shape and better defensive cover.
Lambert quoted in saying”He hasn’t bought Kozak to bench warm”I wonder what Kozak and Benteke would be like upfront UTV
I don’t claim to be an expert but I can’t see how that’s going to work, aren’t they a bit to similar in styles? Wouldn’t they be making the same runs and going for the same balls? Unless PL plans on resorting to route 1 football.
You don’t have to play direct to the target man or men with 4-4-2 BWS.You still have LM and RM plus Delph and whoever partners.Benteke is skilfull to so its not just about long ball but it was evident against Newcastle the long ball.Its the whole shape,protection and stability 4-4-2 provides which IMPO they need to learn shape….
They’re similar but intelligent players. They’ll know how to play off each other.
True mate UTV
How about a 3-5-2,
vlarr/baker/Clark
Lowton/delph/gabby/westwood/luna
Benteke/Kodak
Letting lowton and Luna have free run of the wings, whilst still having 3 men at back, also letting gabby having a bit of a free role in the middle, to pick ball up and run at defenders.
Didnt we try this formation last season.Im sure we got pasted in one game going 3-5-2 I might be wrong.I would still like to have cover in front of the full backs as they are not very good defensively this is where Newcastle and Liverpool exposed us.UTV
First post so don’t slate me! Fully agree with those points really.
What always startles me about our line up is the lack of width going forward. Benteke had the best aerial record in the league last season, yet we don’t play with any genuine wingers. To me that is surely a massive missed opportunity and must be at least worth trying.
I’d like to see Albrighton/Bacuna down the right and two footed Tonev (or even forgotten man N’Zogbia) down the left flank. No issue with the way Weimann and Gabby work the channels during the game, but the formation isn’t one with genuine width. Our lack of permanent presence out wide makes us a lot easier to break down and predict, which usually comes back to haunt us when we give the ball away.
Good points Pete W we do lack width and with the big men Benteke and Kozak in I feel Lambert will go that way eventually with Tonev and Bacuna out wide.Your points are welcome on News and Views mate open debate on here UTV
I think its a matter of finding what works for us. So yes of course a 4 4 2 should be experimented particularly at home. This is really what should have been done in pre season and it was always going to be slow taking of this season with young and inexperienced new players. I would say its going to take atleast 6 to 10 games to find the winning formula. IM an inpatient person but we have to just bare with this as it looks like we don’t have a choice. My only fustration is we are not experimenting enough.
I was after Liverpool wanting a 4-3-3 positive,attacking formation but it looks after Newcastle our players are not experienced or strong enough to play this formation.I just feel we need to protect our leaky back line and protect our full backs.We do have the attacking players to play a 4-4-2.UTV
Let’s get Back to centre forward, inside forward, left wing, left harf, right hatf, centre harf, left back,right back, then we might all see the game as it was, all what you are all asking is why the hell is the coaching staff not doing a job, again players on the opposition will draw a play any get free space. We are not yet educated as young players how to play a good side, am I right or not.
We do look inexperienced in certain areas mate definitely.Then again some of our younger players have been playing European football so they’d should know UTV
442 has some strong arguments, but I get the impression that against Liverpool and Newcastle we didn’t press them anywhere near as aggressively as we did Arsenal and (to a lesser extent) Chelsea. 442 sticks an extra body in front of our back four but if the team don’t defend right from the front through to the back then it’s not the whole answer.
BTW I really don’t pretend to be an expert in tactics and formations.
Their was a piece yesterday on holte7500 suggesting this was a deliberate ploy against Newcastle- to encourage them to come onto us, we could then counter and exploit the space behind.
If that was the case it failed fucking miserably.
I read that too, and if that is the case i’m livid we are trying to be a counter attack team, poxy, cheap tactics if you ask me, hated it under O’Neil and hate it now.
Why counter attack at home?
It was only an opinion Guest, a good read but probably a right load of old fanny the truth being closer to we were shit and simply had an off day but there again PL is MON’s protege.
Read that too and I think it’s bollocks. I didn’t see the Newcastle game as I was taking my daughter to uni and couldn’t bear to watch it after the result and summaries of the game. Liverpool was startling though. In the first half they had all the time in the world to get their heads up and pass the ball around. We didn’t let Arsenal do that and I can’t really see what that has to do with counter attacking. we worked to win the ball and then hit them at pace. The first bit was missing against Liverpool in the first half, and by all accounts same issue vs Newcastle.
Think a middle two for us would be a disaster..
Traditional 4-4-2 is out dated.. two big men upfront and two wingers is a thing of the past.. esp when we don’t even have any quality wingers..
It is a real dilemma we find our selves in..
We ideally need three in the middle.. maybe Delph and Sylla sitting and Tonev infront of them..
Could give Bacuna a run out on the right and Gabby stays on left..
Only way i can see Kojak and Benteke uptop is if we play Tonev and Bacuna out wide and Sylla plus Delph in the middle.. with the two out wide getting thru a lot of work to help the middle two..
It is a dilemma mate but yes Tonev and Bacuna out wide with Kozak and Benteke two Strikers.If we played 4-4-2 we would need a sitter like Sylla to do a Frings type job while the other CM went forward…UTV
Can’t see it JD, it’s going to leave you to light in midfield with two up top.
4-3-3 leaves CBs exposed when going forward plus leaves us open behind the fullbacks.Remy and gouffran proved our fullbacks can’t handle pacey forwards/wingers Rabbits in headlights mate.You where at VP agains Newcastle you could see with your own eyes.
Fullbacks who can’t defend ?Whats the point
We all see different things mate, I thought we were far to narrow and the midfield just lacked quality and gave the ball away to cheap, no movement just square balls across the park. We could have the jolly green giant up front wouldn’t have made any difference because we don’t get down the sides of teams put enough crosses in, even against Arsenal the pens were Gabby going through the middle and a ball over the top nothing from crosses.
I get everyone’s reason for 4 4 2. But could you imagine if we played 4 4 2 and played terrible against Newcastle and still lost? We would be furious to say the least
I agree that the centre backs are very exposed and when you have Vlaar and Clark, neither of whom have pace it causes no end of problems and sums up why we’ve gone 26 games without a clean sheet.
But, we’re really scraping the barrel if we’re looking to Albrighton. He’s never going to be a PL player I’m afraid.
Plus N’Zog was left out the squad photo this week, I very much doubt he will be seen again which IMO is a shame as at least he offers some creativity, even if he is very inconsistent.
We don’t have any real good wide players, so we’re left with this turgid narrow formation that offers nothing. Mind you we might as well experiment because if we stick to the same tactics at home we will be losing every week. Its just too predictable.
I was just putting in the RM LM options we have in the squad mate along with Tonev and Bacuna….Im fishing to see how many fans see the failings in this formation we are applying ATM…..Cheers for your input seems this debate could develop UTV
I’ve read today that we are going to revitalise the Ivalin Popov deal.Why doesn’t Lambert make sure we have a strong CM to partner Delph as Sylla and Westwood have proven they can cut it but are not consistent…
It doesn’t matter what formation we play anymore, I’m resigned to the fact we are going to get relegated this season. Newcastle was a utter disaster. We looked worse than last season. They beat us with one player. UTV
I think if we played with some width we could exploit our big forward or forwards if both played.Mix up the play on the floor and out wide UTV
I think it’s to easy to blame the system. the players have to play football. we did it against. Malaga and Arsenal so what the fuck is going on? Guzan is kicking long everytime he gets the ball, fucking stop it, play the ball out from the back and retain possession through our midfield. it’s not rocket science. why does Guzan do it? Why does Lambert let him? Ffs play football.
The system still exposes the CBs and the full backs are exposed as they are the width this is why wingers can cause problems.We concede far to many because of the system.Yes we beat arsenal but had two penalties.Think it is important to try not to concede and protect our back line as they are far to leaky UTV
4-3-3 wingers is a strictly counter-attacking formation. Soak up pressure, pass it long to the striker or try to make the quick wingers make the runs, have 3 midfielders to supposed to protect the defense but they’ve failed constantly at doing that. It’s not going to work if you wanna play REAL football. Not sure a 4-4-2 would work with Delph and Westwood/Ahmadi, as none of them are protecting the defense now, having it drop to two midfielders I don’t think will work. 4-2-3-1 could work though.
What about the RM and LM protecting our inexperienced fullbacks who are not to good at defending.We had a 4-4-2 with Petrov and Delph…Delph is now the senior player surely Westy or Sylla could play the 2nd.More Sylla than Westwood.UTV
How about getting a couple of fullbacks that can defend?
I agree we do need cover for the fullbacks, was hoping we had Sylla playing more as he’d be able to do that instinctively as a defensive midfielder. A 4-4-2 with Delph and Sylla next to each other isn’t bad but still has no creativity to it and we’d be dropping our current creators deeper and having 2 strikers who will have to create for themselves/each other more. Our biggest problem though is our midfield as they should know that they can’t just stand in the center all game.
How about giving Carruthers and Gardner a run?
Carruther’s seems to be doing well on loan, would be good to have him back in January. It’d be intelligent to give Gardner a shot, only youth player at the moment I wanna see playing.
Yeah bws love to see what they can do
Anyway all this talk of formation is pointless we played 3 5 2 got out played we played 4 3 3 got out played wonder why its because our players are shit, they need to go back to league one where they belong fans need to realise lambert plan wont work trust me give me something postive lads 26 games without a clean sheet 5 home wins you can see the plan wont work we will be relegated norwich will beat us
I’m with you on this one now Villa1996. Can’t see where we are headed anymore in total honesty. I hate to say it but last saturday it actually looked liked we’d gone backwards.
We needed Kyotake or Wijnaldum and we got Kozak, I’m still completely shocked and after the newcastle performance (where we had 4 strikers on the pitch and didn’t have a clue what to do with ourselves) quite bloody pissed off at the whole thing.
You kind of see why a lot of the fans are negative really after such poor performances, and then there’s that little problem of no clean sheet for 26 games.
All is not rosey, but as we are Villa till we die, you can’t help but think something good will happen, just not sure when…………
It is true performances have been poor,we leak goals,cannot win at home.We are inconsistent and have been for years.We are feeling worried because we watch our team play poorly at home.Its like a game of two halves with villa and it is at the moment.Lambert really needs to sort this shit out at VP.No more excuses of we pick em up and go again.Lambert needs to start winning games regular as we are not a piss pot nothing club.Time for all concerned to get it together and start treating AVFC as the clubs history and tradition represents.I am prepared to see how it goes as we are only 4 games in but after say 15 if it hasn’t got any better and we are fighting again Lambert will have to go UTV
I know I’m a broken record. but why does Guzan always kick it long, it invites pressure ffs! He does it all the fucking time. And we think he’s a top goalkeeper.