I’ve noticed there have been no comments on the blues only getting 2,800 tickets for the Capital cup game at Villa park.
I have to confess, I was somewhat disappointed when I saw that, as the Villa-blues derby is still a classic, even though the meejah might not see it the same way.
There are more romantic derbies in the other big cities, but the difference is that we’ve rarely been at similar levels, at least in my lifetime.
Even when we were struggling in the third division of old, we were drawing in massive crowds, for example.
Which embarrassed the blues at the time, even though they were in a higher league.
Conversely, blues have had sporadic periods of better attendances, but from what I recall in my very briefest research, that’s all it has been; sporadic.
So it doesn’t quite do it for the papers.
The point is, we’ve never really been on a par, so there’s no real rivalry.
But we all know it’s as vicious as it gets for the younger fans.
We boast pretty much everything we’ve done is better, while the blues fans boast they’ve won something in this century.
They have a fair point.
Regardless, it’s about as tribal a game as there is anywhere, in my opinion.
So back to that 2,800.
Personally, I think they’re lucky to get that many seats.
It’ll be a long time before I forget about them lobbing bottles and stones at the penned-in Villa fans, who included women and kids, at the sty.
Not that we don’t have our own crew, who are probably just as bad,of course.
But that’s what’s ruined one of the best derbies going.
Hooligans from both sides, involving the totally innocent, who only want to watch the game and don’t want to see a punch-up.
If there was no trouble, there would probably be ten thousand noses at the ground.
Imagine what an atmosphere that would create, eh?
I can somewhat understand younger fans wanting to have a go at the enemy.
Blimey, I thought like that when I was younger and no doubt the British Army love it.
But for god’s sake, if you’re going to go down that road, think about what you’re doing lads, especially in front of kids and women.
Apologies if you think I should try and sweep this under the carpet and play it down, but we all know it’s going to go off, don’t we?
I’m a bit worried about this one, as if it goes off big time again, we’ll both be sanctioned even more.
And after the injustice of the £200k fine for the Albion game, I’m wondering what the next level sanction might be?
I agree with you, as soon as the tie was announced I thought to myself that it will create more problems for us with the media and the powers that be. Look at all the flack we got over the WBA game and that is nowhere near as strong a rivalry as Villa vs Blues. And then Sky announce they are going to show the game live – great we will be shown as hooligans to the whole country. Let’s face it this game is not going to end without some sort of trouble kicking off somewhere.
I was reading elsewhere that allegedly noses were trying to buy tickets in the villa sections so that they can get more fans in to see the game. I hope this isn’t true as it could cause a lot of trouble.
Things the Villa ticket agency should look out for if fans of the Scum try to buy tickets in the Villa section:
Boils
Inability to speak properly
Neanderthal gait
Putrid smells
Fear of soap
Unable to count to ten
Unable to recite the alphabet in full
No passport
Big fat wives
Kids with a thousand yard stare
Bad teeth
VERY thick spectacles
Used odour eaters sticking out of coat pockets
Torn nylon out of date anoraks
Criminal records
Finally, before anyone is given a ticket, they have to say aloud “I love the Villa with all my heart,and Birmingham City should be allowed to go bust because they are f****** scum”.
That should do it!!!! 🙂
LOL 😀 nice one bum bum.we’ll be fucked for car parking spaces with all them caravans.
I could have added something about ‘atonal sing-song accents that make you sounds a bit thick’, but then I remembered our B6 postcode! Lol!!!
Bub bum, you are wicked but I like it, the ticket allocation no more than what they did in the past, and yes there will be trouble that’s inevitable, just don’t give them top of the Witton stand and net the side section to divide fans, and again that will not stop idiots going just to say let’s kick some ass, they won’t think how its going to affect both clubs in lost revenue if fines are hitting the clubs.that game is for dopes knowing they are going to cause it.
The police know exactly who the top boys and their inner circles are, all that’s needed is for the authorities to make them report to a police station at 5pm and the threat of jail if caught within 3 miles of the ground. It will go off but it might keep the trouble away from the match and surrounding areas.
Fantastic bum bum lol.
Badger – I don’t quite get what angle you’re coming from.
On the one hand you seem to be suggesting that 2,800 is too few – will lack atmosphere, etc., but then you worry that even 2,800 could cause a problem?
In my view it all boils down to policing and stewarding in and around the ground. The WBA game suggested to me that the stewarding at VP needs to be improved, more of them, much-better training, etc. WM Police are suffering massive budget cuts and they’re going to be stretched by games like this as well.
I think Villa are trying to play-safe with the ticket allocation, even though potentially they could almost fill the ground for this game; I just hope that they do enough preparatory planning and have enough stewards on hand to control whatever does kick-off within the ground. As for what happens outside, that will come down to the police.
Maybe he’s saying both. On the one hand it would be good to have the atmosphere, but on the other hand there will be more agro the more of the great unwashed turn up…
Spot on Bum Bum.
Ardent,
It’s definitely a contradictory stance that I have.
Part of me hankers for those 50k crowds, where the atmosphere was pure electricity and most energy was spent on trying to out-sing the enemy. Brilliant stuff.
But even then, it always went off, if you wanted it.
Perhaps it’s my rose tinted glasses, but I don’t remember many innocents getting caught up in it.
Although in fairness, I was walking down by the Navigation pub and got set upon by two Forest fans who were on a coach that had just had the windows bricked, after we’d played them.
Nothing too serious though, a few digs about on a par as if I’d had a schoolground scrap.
And I remember a schoolmate who got hit in the chest by a flying ashtray that came from a Man u coach.
The police saw him bleeding, immediately assumed he’d been fighting and locked him up, only for the doctor to send him to hospital.
Those incidents apart, I don’t remember much else.
But then, I was a young lad where, while I didn’t want trouble, would do the best I could to defend the colours that I wore (I was never any use).
And that’s my point here, in that you’ll never stop kids fighting if they want it.
I like to think I’m now pretty sensible and of course none of this fighting stuff can be condoned.
But my attitude is if you can’t stop it, you need to police it better and I believe they actually do, these days, in that they know who the players are and they funnel them off, so they can play their games out.
The Sandy lane punch-up was a classic example, where the police just let them get on with it, but just filmed it.
Of course, it’s all about health and safety these days and the police could never admit that that’s what happens.
This has turned into a bit of a ramble, but my point is, has it actually got any worse than it was in the 70’s-80’s?
I’d say it’s a lot better nowadays and probably why many say the game is too sterile.
Hence, give the noses a load of tickets, else they will be spread about all over the ground.
And clusters of noses, who might plan to join up, isn’t a good thing.
The only other alternative, is to ban them altogether and anyone smelling of nose is immediately ejected.
I definitely can’t go down that road, which is why i can’t see the reason in there being such a low number of tickets.
It’s a confusing argument for me.
I bloody hate ’em and don’t want them in our place.
But they do make the game what it’s all about.
Oh and yes, our stewarding is crap and has been for a long time.
The Villa used to be stewarded by Villa fans, who did it for the free entrance, knew the script and personally knew the troublemakers, who they could at least try to calm down somewhat.
At least, that’s how I saw it.
Bill, I’d like your thoughts on this point.
Its late badger and most of what you’ve said is spot on I’ve witness police arresting fans being in the wrong place at the wrong time, stewards today are not of yesteryear stewards all have to have safety and fire certification, Police are recruited from every division of West Midlands, so you can imaging you have Blue noses, Albion, and Walsall at the game, and fans arrested for just being at the game. The police sit every month with the council to justify how many they need to stop unruly football fans, in my day club paid 1/4 of policing and its not cheap.
They cant give them more than 3000 because of the potential trouble. Would be the same if it were at Blues. Atmosphere will be electric and it will be a close game if Blues keep playing like they are. Interesting to see who he picks for this game…although Im pretty sure Sanchez will be on the teamsheet that day!!
70s and 80s at Villa park with Blues Villa clashes, it was beyond peoples conception of it being a football match of two local teams, you could see murder in fans faces yet the world had bigger issues, I just couldn’t believe friends could fall out over their team not being their colour, English clubs had a bad reputation abroad they had seen the way crowds behaved over here, I traveled with Villa many times and witnessed what other teams abroad thought of us, in Belgium seen the crowd turn on us and police came into our section of the ground with batons, they was hitting anyone they could see, lucky I had 15 Stewards with their coats and we stood between police and fans to show we was helping. Another time at Villa park Holte versus Witton , we just had installed cameras, the police just took no notice and filmed the crowds behavior, again stewards got between the fans and pointed to them that they was being filmed. My point is today its a big business for the authorities and its the fans that pay the bill, and at the end of the day the club gets hurt.sorry to live on memories and bore you lads, but yes Police will have big problems on that game at Villa park.
I hope Tim knows how much passion this fixture holds to us VILLA fans & picks the team accordingly.micky mouse cup or not bragging rights are at stake I’m sure we’ll still remain the pride of the second city for years to come.UTV SOTC
I would imagine the Blose are paying the penalty for the Baggies chucking seats and the numerous pitch invasions at the last local derby cup match.
That said, 2,800 is still a lot of potential trouble. Some of the worst things I’ve seen were around the The Sty when I went to a couple of games on my own as mates just didn’t think it was worth the bother when on TV.
A bloke in his seventies pushing his wheelchair bound wife set upon by noses as he had a Villa tracksuit top on.
Young lad (fourteen or fifteen) walking with his arm around his girlfriend attacked by half a dozen or more men in their thirties and forties as he had a Villa shirt on.
Bottles and bricks raining down on men, women & children in the little holding area after the match with the late Gabby winner.
These aren’t football fans, they’re animals and not welcome.
Vaze, don’t know how old you are but I’ve seen a young boy smacked in the face walking with his dad at the Albion game after a match, to me they are animals, and I’ll even say cowards, I’ve done my bit for Queen and country, but today we have cowards thinking they are men, put them in the army and they would shit themselves, I’m glad I’m the generation from the forties. Utv,
Just hope the police and stewards have their act together this time.
I remember some of the clashes in the 70s and 80s when the trip to St. Andrews was literally entering enemy territory. It was truly frightening at times and we don’t want to see more of that.
What we do want to see is more 1988, successive 5-0 and 6-0 tonkings in cup matches. More of that please Tim.
UTV
Pat57, can you remember Villa stewards on the side of that ground having stewards from Villa ? That was the first time we did it, Steve Stride was against it, I have in my file a report saying that the Villa fans and thier stewards averted a pretentious situation, we was praised for good conduct.
Sorry Bill remember the score line bit only vaguely remember the stewards. Remember there was always trouble though. Glad things are better these days in that respect.
Reading some of the comments has brought back a few bad memories. I found that some of the worst problems happened well away from the ground – the old pedestrian underpasses in the city centre were no-go areas for hours before and after a Villa-Blues game, and I also remember a lot of very unpleasant scenes in some [‘neutral’] city-centre pubs long after the games had finished.
But back to my main point: regardless of how many tickets the Scum take up, I just hope that the club are far better prepared in terms of stewarding then they were for the WBA game – and will act far quicker than they did, whether that’s controlling ‘over enthusiastic’ Villa fans, or ejecting the inbreds straight into police hands.
Ardent, now there’s the thing, I’ve seen police scared of being in position of surrounding football fans, I remember 3 policemen at the rear of Witton end in the away section, I turned up with 6 stewards and boy was they glad to see us, today stewards are paid to monitor gangways, doors and scuffles, 80s they dealt with troubles. today its not allowed for safety reasons, police can have all the O levels but common sense you’re born with, how many do we have today in football grounds? Not many.
Bill I can well imagine that stewards today are probably very restricted in what they are allowed to do as far as man-handling trouble-makers is concerned; that puts even more emphasis on the police to deal with people once they’ve been removed from the ground.
If the police can’t provide enough manpower, or are reluctant to be appropriately ‘physical’ with ejected troublemakers, then there’ll be chaos…
Ardent , exactly there will be trouble. unfortunately the club will pay.
That’s the thing Ardent.
The Stewards these days (and I don’t want it to sound like sour grapes, but this did happen to me) are more interested in throwing you out for holding an unlit cigarette.
And the police are not allowed to get physical, as you say.
One of my endearing memories at VP was when we played the Arse and they had a go at the Holte.
This copper must have been 6ft 10″ and about 20 stone, with a large, but not overweight build.
He just waded towards the trouble and started yanking fighting lads by the hair and flinging them to the floor.
A truly scary sight, although I suspect he loved the violence too.
I’m not sure I’d want to go back to that, but it might be better than just allowing fans to run riot
On a different note, it seems Gana didn’t train yesterday, as he’s tweaked his hamstring.
Hopefully it’s not serious.
Will we ever have a full strength team to put out???