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  1. adam2231
    adam2231 October 23, 2013 at 8:47 am . Reply

    You are absolutely right, I never actually realised that Villa are yet to ‘outplay’ a team. We couldn’t even do that against Norwich!

    The only thing I’ll disagree on is Lerner’s support, he’s given the manager a good amount of money to work with over the last two years. £40 million has been spent on new players over the last two years. Some transfers were simply better than others.

    One way I can see Aston Villa’s fortunes change, is a change of system. I’m still for a 4-4-2 formation, as I feel we should utilise the height that Kozak, Benteke and Helenius offer. Put in to wingers, get them to cross in the ball and two forwards will create chaos in the box.

    1. Bill Pearson
      Bill Pearson October 23, 2013 at 9:26 am . Reply

      MarkDrapernumber8. A excellent post and very very true, I’m the same as you on this, I stood by knowing we needed to change and went along with Lambert ideas, but now questions are to be ask , what are you doing to my club by dishing up games we should have won, teams now know us and how we play, we don’t change our system the way we should, to me it shows bad management. Once again Mark a post with common sence well put. Our midfield is useless, Kea is not a main player in the middle no direction in distribution of play, we need a player with ideas on creating openings, our midfield don’t work.

      1. markdrapernumber8
        markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:30 pm . Reply

        Cheers mate. Yeh I agree with you on all of that.

  2. Terry Jones
    Terry Jones October 23, 2013 at 9:08 am . Reply

    Mark mate a very good post but Lambert was the wrong choice to start with he had never really proved anything at Norwich.He was taken on the back of what certain fans thought writing was on the wall when he first delved into the transfer market.Young hungry players i can use the Dortmund model and build a team from scratch attitude and look where it;s got us nearly relegated and no signs of real improvement a team that,s so disjointed it;s frightening.As you say no improvement by December the 25th then he must be replaced.

    1. adam2231
      adam2231 October 23, 2013 at 9:25 am . Reply

      If you were the owner, what manager would you have realistically hired? Lambert was the best candidate at the time.

      If Lambert was to get sacked now, the only manager that would be an improvement is arguably Di Matteo. And that’s IF you could convince him to come here

      1. Bill Pearson
        Bill Pearson October 23, 2013 at 9:33 am . Reply

        Adam123 he was poached from Norwich was he not, and for what reasons I wonder, so what we have was forced on to us, we all thought it was for the best.

      2. Andrew
        Andrew October 23, 2013 at 12:36 pm . Reply

        Di Matteo’s in 0 ways an upgrade. Could have gotten Sociedad’s manager, could have gone for a multitude of foreign manager’s, far better than Lambert or Di Matteo. Doesn’t take much either, like at Southampton’s, he’s managed… Espanyol and he’s still dominating just about every team.

  3. Bill Pearson
    Bill Pearson October 23, 2013 at 9:34 am . Reply

    Sorry Adam 2231……. 🙂

  4. Jay Dee
    Jay Dee October 23, 2013 at 10:46 am . Reply

    Good post and your obviously venting your point of view.Nzogbia never really is in form he is inconsistent far to often than not and that’s why he’s out plus probably his wages.As for relegation or a relegation fight I can’t answer that and neither can you.We do need a creative playmaker to open up defences and pop it around the area as I put in my previous post AVFC Rollercoaster.Our main problem at the moment is inconsistency.Many supporters panic and think the worst hence the mumblings and groanings of the AVFC old farts moaning club or news and view negative moaning sold farts club it’s their age you see.Also you can hold a manager responsible for some things but not poor play.If you look at the Spurs game the tactics where working until Townsends fluke goal.We had Spurs contained and they have spent over 100 million.The only games we have been outplayed is Liverpool.We played poor 1st halves against Liverpool and Newcastle.We had man city on the run at times and there squad is massively superior on paper.These are inexperienced premier league players and will have poor games up and down their form will go until they reach a consistent level.Lerner has backed Lambert in this project with fundings but the moaners just don’t like it because we are not winning trophies or back in Europe yet.But get this we ain’t good enough yet with the team we have so you have to be realistic and accept the building job that is underway.Dortmund where nearly relegated a few seasons ago when they did exactly the same as we are.Lambert is a coaching son of Dortmund he did his coaching badges there.Dont worry mate Lambert will sort Villa out UTV

    1. BWS
      BWS October 23, 2013 at 2:34 pm . Reply

      F**k Me JD you really do see things through rose coloured glasses, “Spurs game the tactics where working” are you for real? We were never at the races.
      The result against Man City was a total fluke and we were absolutely chronic against Liverpool, Newcastle, Hull and the Spuds (Cup).
      “the moaners just don’t like it because we are not winning trophies or back in Europe”
      No shit Sherlock.

      1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 23, 2013 at 4:30 pm . Reply

        Spot on BWS I think JD is on some sort of pill that makes him think he is watching Barcelona play when he watches us. I’m glad someone else has realised city result was a fluke.

    2. BWS
      BWS October 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm . Reply

      And lets put this Lambert German myth to bed, he played 44 games for Dortmund out a career total of 574 games (he was there one season 96/97). For the remaining 530 he played exclusively in the SPL so I think we can safely say the biggest influence on him will have been Scottish Football.
      Heaven help us.

      1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 23, 2013 at 4:32 pm . Reply

        Your on form BWS. Couldn’t agree more. Mark Hughes and Roy keane were great utd players but havnt really cut as managers eecoally keane.

        1. BWS
          BWS October 23, 2013 at 4:58 pm . Reply

          Cheers Oohah.

      2. Colonius81
        Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 4:37 pm . Reply

        If you can categorically state that influence is based on the amount of games you play and where you play them I would agree with that.
        but there is the tiny matter of winning a champions league medal while he was there for one season that may just attach more weight to the 44 games in Germany.
        Coupled with the fact that he then chose to ignore where he played 530 games as a player and take his coaching in the country where he just played 44 ..
        There is the appointment of a German head scout although has left now ( which i am personally pretty disappointed about)

        I don’t think there is anything mythical about the fact that Lambert was heavily influenced by his time spent in Germany. So for me no .. lets not put it to bed.
        its still a relevant factor when you think of Lambert and his approach to villa.
        oh and the fact he has openly admited he still refers back to the training/tactics and methods he learnt there.

        1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
          OohAhPaulMcGrath October 23, 2013 at 4:40 pm . Reply

          What tactics does lamert use other than lumping it up to Benteke or Kojak and hope for the best. He is as bad as mclown IMO. To play the type of way Dortmund played last night you have to have quality players that are at least 10 steps ahead of ours. We havnt got that calibre of player in the team and never will have. The only class outfield player is cb and he can’t wait to fuck off

        2. BWS
          BWS October 23, 2013 at 4:52 pm . Reply

          Before the (fortunate) demise setanta sports I regularly watched, no suffered SPL games and the thing that always struck me was how narrow the game was (ring any bells?) How the full backs always played the ball inside and rarely ventured forward.
          I’m afraid to say the football we are witnessing down at VP is more Dumbarton than it is Dortmund.

    3. markdrapernumber8
      markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:37 pm . Reply

      Cheers JD. Yeh but I don’t want to see us contunuisly “containing” teams, this is my point, we’re not doing anything our way, it’s more about damage limitation and if and when we can cathcing them cold at the back, too easily read by the opposition imo

  5. Jay Dee
    Jay Dee October 23, 2013 at 11:59 am . Reply

    At the moment I remain confident as we have had a hard start to the season harder than most yet we have still got more points than we had this time last season and a better goal difference.

  6. Troy Eccles
    Troy Eccles October 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm . Reply

    “….even with the new lads we look a worse team than last season.”

    The same games last season (substituting Hull for QPR) got us just 4 points and a GD of -15. This season, 10 points and a GD of just -1. Three of those games were during our up-tick in form from January 1.

    Would you swap? No.
    Were we outplayed as you’ve stated? No.
    Are we likely relegation fodder this season? No.
    Are you moaning for the sake of it? Yes.

    1. markdrapernumber8
      markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:29 pm . Reply

      If you’ve read my post mate, I don’t think you can say I’m moaning for the sake of it. That’s not ho I wanted it to come across anyway. I’m asking questions of whats happening at the moment.

      How do you see it?

      And were we outplayed? 100% Yes mate

      1. Andrew
        Andrew October 23, 2013 at 9:00 pm . Reply

        100% yes? Nah. Arsenal fans are claiming they outplayed Dortmund. Possession doesn’t in any way mean you’re out playing someone. Out playing someone is what you create and what you do. Only two games we were out played were Newcastle and Spurs in the cup. The difference is, were we good enough in the other games? No. But considering us 100% outplayed is wrong imo.

  7. old farts club and coffin dodgers utd.

    Its amazing how young punks turn on people that’s been on this planet longer and inevitably more the wiser, and come up with old farts. They have no idea who and what them old farts have done in life, if they knew they might think different, Jay Dee my young fried I have fought the cause for Aston Villa since a young child, so has other old farts. But our shoulders are strong not like the young ones of today. Adam could you start up an old farts club as it might be the answer to Villa’s problems. 🙂

    1. Jay Dee
      Jay Dee October 23, 2013 at 1:27 pm . Reply

      I just hope your wrong couldn’t face another season in the mire.I think Lambert is the right choice….UTV

    2. Jay Dee
      Jay Dee October 23, 2013 at 1:33 pm . Reply

      I have a lot of respect for the old farts club but just like young punks we are human and not always correct.

      1. Glad you admit that Jay Dee, come and have a drink with me on Saturday in the Villa Tavern. Nechells. 🙂

  8. BWS
    BWS October 23, 2013 at 2:44 pm . Reply

    MD8 a good post sir.

    1. markdrapernumber8
      markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:39 pm . Reply

      Cheers mate

  9. Vaze
    Vaze October 23, 2013 at 4:21 pm . Reply

    So after a tough start that has yielded three points, and a minus one goal difference, we’re clearly worse than last season ?

    We look far from the real deal, and I’d love a billionaire owner to come in and lift us up to challenge for the title, but I don’t think that’s realistic.

    Lambert and Lerner out, fair enough, who do we bring in ?

    I still think we’ll finish between eight and fourteenth. Disappointing to where we have been in the past, much improved on bottom scraping, relegation escaping last season.

    We’re more likely to go down this season than last ? Really ?

    1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
      OohAhPaulMcGrath October 23, 2013 at 4:37 pm . Reply

      Well vaze for once I agree who do we bring in. If Lerner went we might get venky type owners. If lambert went then we’d get a curbishly or someone of that ilk. So we are stuck with being shit until Lerner decides to sell.

    2. BWS
      BWS October 23, 2013 at 5:07 pm . Reply

      Lambert and Lerner out, fair enough, who do we bring in ?

      Not that old chestnut again? Well anybody that gives a f**k!
      Look at Kenwright at Everton worth around £33m and the way that clubs been run or Peter Coates at Stoke neither billionaires but they care.

      This better the devil you know is wearing a little thin it’s a bit like an abused wife that stays with her old man and says ” but he loves me”.

      1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:30 am . Reply

        Ha ha that’s funny BWS. Agree though Lerner has to go for us to prosper again. He overstayed his welcome at the browns and run them I to the ground and is doing the same with us. There is no way we can get him out thou I say withdraw our support until he fucks off but to many sheep on here will have a nervous breakdown 🙂

  10. Vaze
    Vaze October 23, 2013 at 4:22 pm . Reply

    Three wins. Three points and you’d justify your post lol !

    1. markdrapernumber8
      markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm . Reply

      Lol mate, but really how are we better footballing wise? We’ve gone backwards imo, lumping up the field far too much. We have spells of posession but nothing settling for long periods of the game. 2nd half against the pool is the best we’ve played this season, we need to bottle that somehow.

      1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:47 am . Reply

        Agree it’s either put everyone behind the ball and hope for the best or lump it up to krapjack and watch him stand there like a statue. Ffs dire shire

  11. Colonius81
    Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 4:39 pm . Reply

    well done MD8,its a really good honest article – i have read it twice now.

    1. Colonius81
      Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 6:06 pm . Reply

      lol .. other 19 owners ….. fail

    2. markdrapernumber8
      markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:42 pm . Reply

      thanks mate

  12. Naughtius Maximus
    Naughtius Maximus October 23, 2013 at 5:09 pm . Reply

    reading a lot of comments on here you’d think we were sitting there with sunderland and crystal palace.
    I believe we’ve got to see this thing out, like I said in another post it took man city 4 years to achieve anything with unlimited funds, lambert has been here a season with a shoe string.
    I do question lambert at times tactically but so far im seeing improvements, again most of us agreed during the closed season that anywhere round mid table would be a significant improvement and so far this season we’re currently 9 points off the top and 9 points off the bottom, you cant get much more mid table.
    that’s not to say I don’t want better and I expect better but it will tke time, talk of removing lambert is a harsh imo and barring relegation this season I cant really see that happening anyway.

    1. BWS
      BWS October 23, 2013 at 5:19 pm . Reply

      We wont get relegated simply because there are 3 teams worse than us, eureka! The pennies just dropped! Randy’s master plan- to make the 4th worst team in the EPL?
      That might float your boat but it don’t do anything for me.

      1. Colonius81
        Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 5:58 pm . Reply

        your random maths floats my boat!
        Randy master plan is to make the 4th worst team in the EPL

        is really the only conclusion that can be drawn by finishing as the 6th worse team last year and currently the 8th worst team this season.

        meanwhile all the other better than our owners target of finishing in the top 20 worst teams in the premier league remains on track.

        1. BWS
          BWS October 23, 2013 at 6:16 pm . Reply

          Alright then the 16th best, that make you any happier?

          1. Colonius81
            Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm . Reply

            Ha ha but I was beginning to come round to your point of view!
            Lerner has set a target of 4th worst and we are failing to achieve that we are only currently 8th worst.
            Lerner out !

      2. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:37 am . Reply

        Spot on everyone is now happy we can finish in the bottom six instead of top 6 ffs

    2. OohAhPaulMcGrath
      OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:32 am . Reply

      Not another give em time merchant. Wev been saying this since MON fucked off. How many more years must Lerner have to get it right. He couldn’t even succeed in his own sport in USA so how the fuck is he going to make us good again. No chance Lerner out

  13. Langfordvilla
    Langfordvilla October 23, 2013 at 6:36 pm . Reply

    This old fart was happier in Div 3…….why, simple we knew that with the size of our club and the obvious ‘ambition’ that was being shown, we would be back amongst the elite…we achieved that! We tried again with MON and failed miserably……god if only we had a decent manager spending the same amount of money we would have been a regular top 4 team so what was the Lerner master plan? Too many cutbacks, too soon. With a more conservative approach to cost cutting we could have been in a much healthier position now…… The approach we now have is to simply survive in the PL as long as possible whilst Randy pockets the sky money and the proceeds from selling our best players. So we survive again this season, Bentake will be sold plus there will be approx 30 million from sky…Lambert will be given a maximum of 20 million to survive again = 40 mil in Lerners back pocket, pointless!
    We will NOT be relegated, but that is NOWHERE NEAR good enough for our great club!
    Thw Villa is OURS, the Villa is OURS, fuck off Lerner, the Villa is OURS

    1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
      OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:42 am . Reply

      Langford your negativity is different class you’ve out done me and terry put together. What a great turnaround I’m proud of you seeing the light at last. Your right we won’t go down but that’s no consolation of how shit we are

  14. markdrapernumber8
    markdrapernumber8 October 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm . Reply

    Cheers lads!

    Yeh reading back over this the relegation thing may be being a little extreme, I do agree that this season there are at least 3 teams worse than us (thank f*ck) so relegation is a long shot. But in terms of significant imrpovement I just can’t see it at the moment, hopefully they come good. Also when I say we look worse than last season I’m talking about our play on the field, yes, numbers do the talking in the league but playing wise we are worse, if you disagree then tell me why/how? We have been really lucky, which is nice.

    1. Andrew
      Andrew October 23, 2013 at 9:14 pm . Reply

      Don’t think there’s been a significant improvement, but the improvement has shown. Even not comparing game for game this season to last, as they were played at a different part, we’ve conceded 9 and scored 8, compared to conceding 13 and scoring 6. So it’s shown that while I dislike our tactics and still think they’re inept, it’s already proven that there is an improvement.

      We faced West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Swansea, Southampton, West Bromich, Spurs and Fulham and won 1 of those, the 2-0 win over Swansea.
      This time it’s been Arsenal, Chelsea, Pool, Newcastle, Norwich, City, Hull, Spurs. And we’ve won 3 of those. Taking 10 points in 8 instead of 5 that we took last season.

      I for one don’t believe in luck, at all, doesn’t exist. The improvement speaks for itself in the points/table position/goals for and against for itself. We have a -1 GD instead of a -7.

      One thing I do agree is our play on the pitch is different, and going forward is worse though we have scored 3 more still, but we look so much better at the back, and every time we’re attacked now I don’t think it’s going to be a goal.

      1. Andrew
        Andrew October 23, 2013 at 9:18 pm . Reply

        While we don’t dominate games, and aren’t a possession team, which I digress sucks honestly, when we get possession, our play is quick and often worries defenders. We don’t dominated as when, especially in the first half, let a team pass around their own half and often when they hit our half, the midfield is all over them.

      2. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:59 am . Reply

        The reason we are worse going forward is mainly because the defence is so shit that lamberk has no choice but to play 5 in midfield to protect them. The problem is when we clear the ball there is no one up there.

        1. Andrew
          Andrew October 24, 2013 at 6:22 am . Reply

          But the defense isn’t “so shit”. They’re a talented group that doesn’t even get the cover you’re claiming they get. Our midfield is weak and our winger’s don’t track back to protect the fullbacks. Our defense is arguably our strong point right now.

          1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
            OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 8:48 am . Reply

            Rubbish did you not see vlaars crap header to Westwood that led to their second goal. Luna is crap, Clarke and vlaar have improved but still not good enough baker is not good enough fullstop. Lowton us shit defensively, bacuna does a job but that’s it. Guzan very good of course. But I agree with midfield comment we must have the weakest midfield in the prem. Bar delph the rest are complete shite. Westwood should be dropped ages ago but he’s lamberks favourite, though sylla and kae are only marginally better. Tonev is a joke. Our midfield can’t string 2 passes together which is why we can’t keep possesion. Even on the rare occasion we do string passes together we lose posession far to easily.

    2. OohAhPaulMcGrath
      OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 12:46 am . Reply

      Agree md8 wev become as boring as mcleish theses days. All lamberk is doing is damage limitation against city spurs Liverpool etc he parked the bus. When mclown did that we all slagged him. We have cut lamberk loads of slack tge past year and how has he repaid us. By signing shit strikers like crapjack instead of an am that’s how.

  15. Jay Dee
    Jay Dee October 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm . Reply

    I enjoyed your post MDN8 simply because you put your own spin on things.I don’t follow all this doom and gloom as I just can’t be arsed with the moaning and grumbling when I was a lad down pit shit……As I see it pal we are around mid table pushing for around 8-10 which we can achieve in one game.Heres the thing even if AVFC came out Saturday and played Everton off the park there would still be the doom and gloom club around a couple of days later to piss all over it.Anyways up enjoyed the read UTV

  16. Colonius81
    Colonius81 October 23, 2013 at 8:12 pm . Reply

    the extra money is great but i am curious to see how that extra 30m could end up in Lerner’s pocket.

    We had losses of 59.3m for year ending 2011, and 17.7m for the year ending 2012.
    I am very interested to see what the accounts say for this year.

    If we are make a profit for 2013 and are still fighting relegation this season and next -it would be hard to argue that the club is not being run from a financial basis not a football basis.

    But to date, It seems Lerner has not yet made a shred of profit .. the club has made losses and he has funded them from his own personal wealth.

    you could argue that’s what an owner should do and that’s a separate argument but for now
    i don’t see how lerner has made any profit to date. Someone show me how he has.

    In this post O Neill spending era, mcleish was cost cutting – although given and nzogbia got big pay deals

    Lambert is definitely operating on a tight budget in terms of transfer fees and wages.
    but its still just one year into his reign.
    and there was still a legacy of high earning under performers clinging on this summer.

    So in terms of Lerner pocketing 30m per year .. (which is less that cost of one totenham unused sub last weekend)
    I will emphasis that until the accounts come out and show that .. its just speculation.

    1. Andrew
      Andrew October 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm . Reply

      Well put, Lerner’s lost money continuously each year. We have no idea if Lerner would put in more money if we started making a profit as he’s yet too. Will things change, fans can speculate and speculate a lot have that he won’t, but again that’s speculation and is only going to rile yourself up and get angry for little reason without actually knowing.

      1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
        OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 1:00 am . Reply

        Yep he did really well at tge browns as well not

        1. Andrew
          Andrew October 24, 2013 at 6:20 am . Reply

          Two different sports, two different ideas.

  17. Villan1
    Villan1 October 23, 2013 at 10:10 pm . Reply

    Excellent article, well balanced and many good points raised.
    When I look at our squad 3 things leap out:
    1) Lack of creativity- no real playmaker or player that can unlock defences in tight games
    2) Lack of width- very strange considering Benteke’s aerial presence and ability
    3) Lack of a strong defensive midfielder to help shield defence, we get over run in midfield way too much IMO.
    I would agree with Lambert becoming one dimensional. It appears plan A is counter attack and plan B is hoof it to Benteke or Kozak. Aside from that, I really don’t see much nous or tactical ability.
    Mind you, my biggest concern remains with Randy Lerner. Doesn’t come to games any more, doesn’t communicate and investment has fallen sharply. A sign of a man that isn’t interested. I am now totally convinced that we will achieve nothing and linger in this air of mediocrity until Randolph calls it a day. For the sake of the club and the fans, we need a new owner more than we need a new manager or players ATM.

    1. OohAhPaulMcGrath
      OohAhPaulMcGrath October 24, 2013 at 1:05 am . Reply

      The browns were glad to see him fuck off. Shame he didn’t sell us instead

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