Good grief, what is Edens wearing!
I heard this while watching the BBC local news and have to say straight off that I believe it’s the right decision for the club, if maybe not for our footy.
I tried to read the statement on the OS, but of course, the site timed out.
What do they use for broadband, I wonder; steam?
It’s probably BT.
Apart from the decision being right, I also believe it’s the moral thing to do, after the news came about that Thierry Henry had agreed to take over as manager.
For what it’s worth, I believe that story was probably true. I’ve no doubt Henry had agreed in principal to take over if indeed the new majority owners decided to change manager.
And I’d bet that this sort of thing happens all the time, in the background.
But we don’t usually get to hear about it, as the unwritten rule is that you never discuss someone’s job while they’re still in it.
Which is where I have to ask myself who leaked the story to the press?
I very much doubt it would be any of the owners, as that’s just not the way sucessful people do business.
So my pure guess is that it’s come from Henry’s advisor.
And actually might have shot Henry’s chances in the foot, in the short term anyway.
You only have to read the criticism on here and other sites about how the whole thing was just wrong.
But not only is it the morally correct thing to do, it just makes sense.
Bringing in a totally inexperienced manager, this late on would have been a massive mistake.
And then there’s the amount of money it would cost the club to sack Bruce, which was anywhere upwards of £1.5 million, if the press are to be believed.
Having thought about it, that contract payment still doesn’t make sense.
Why would you have a one year rolling contract, if it involves another six months severance pay on top?
Answer, you wouldn’t.
That’s the whole point. After each year, the contract is looked at again and if either party is unhappy, it’s terminated.
Which is quite handy for the owners, given that Bruce’s contract runs out in October.
It’s gives them time to see how Bruce gets on.
And if he looks to be failing, they can sack him, safe in the knowledge that Henry will probably be sat on the sidelines and they’re not seen to be totally ruthless, in bringing in an unexperienced manager, while not giving Bruce a chance.
Being totally pragmatic, it’s a win-win for the club.
But I genuinely hope Bruce gets us off to a flyer, as that’s all that matters.
But trying to play better footy would probably help his cause too.
Putting the team and pre-season to one side for a moment and to get back to the new owners.
These are very smart cookies (more than anyone here), you don’t get to be a multi-billionaire though bad decisions or misinformation. Dr Tony is also a Billionaire but he has fallen foul of curencny restrictions not allowing him to inject fresh capital from China, resulting in critical cash flow issues and hence needing to sell 55% of his equity for the club to survive.
The new owners were probably looking for an English or European club to buy/invest in, this wouldn’t have been a knee jerk decision.
They will have done due diligence and been through the books (balance sheet, assets, liabilities, PnL, cash and cash flow positions) they will know that we are ‘debt free’ but cash poor with higher operating costs (mostly due to salaries).
Dr Tony had a plan (we won’t know the details but obviously hinged on Premier League and also redevelopment of north stand as well as additional revenue streams). Most of this is probably still relevant but we will get further opportunities that these investors bring in, expanding the franchise and revenue (Middle East & US fan base added to Chinese opportunity, advertising and sponsorship with their other businesses and contacts ie Addidas as an example, they will also bring additional and much needed ‘smarts’ into the club operations and management).
They would not be doing this for a quick buck, they are also not asset strippers. They see this as a strategic move to increase their overall business and franchises and this hinges on Premier League and the huge funds and marketing this offers).
I would expect them to already have started a 5 year planning exercise with imediate focus being on 3.6 & 12 month objectives and funding the team, they will have the smarts to navigate any FFP issues until the revenue increases. Once the dead wood is finally gone (Richards, McCormack etc) the final building for the future can really begin.
The future is very bright we now have 3 multi billionaires in charge of our club, funding and competing for assets will no longer be a problem.
This season is still about getting out of this division which they will support, they didn’t buy the club to stay in the championship, have a little more patience and of course, keep the faith.
Singapore Villan I like it good post.
Thanks Bill, trying to keep on topic and address any misconceptions
Very good points made. I wonder if Bill has his big check suit on today, like our new owner??? 😊
I do think our three owners seem to have a bit more football brains. It’s essential if u need to understand the game.
I guess thinking this through leads to another prospect.
The reported £30m paid for 55% does not go to the club but obviously to the Dr for the sale of his equity.
But this does mean now that the Dr has funds onshore to invest in the club.
Have the 55% of shares been purchased equally (ie 27.5% each or through another company that owns the 55% or have the two different equity stakes eg 30 % and 25%. Who knows ?)
What maybe not understood is that the shareholders would need to inject fresh capital in equal ratio so if £100m was injected into the club for working capital and transfer kitty then the new owenrss would have fo provide £55m and the Dr £45m. It’s not the same as having a single owner like before.
Im sure the Dr is playing the long game, once we get back to EPL and with a few successful seasons the club value might be for instance £300m, the Drs 45% would then be worth £135m, roughly twice what he paid and he also got a £30m dividend from selling 55%.
Interesting dynamics and shows substantial cash over and above the current sale is needed.
Where does the £30 mill come from?
My assumption is that it’s a pound a share?
So £55 mill, unless I’ve missed something (which is always possible).
And it’s 27.5% each, as far as I’ve read, but noone knows for sure.
“What maybe not understood is that the shareholders would need to inject fresh capital in equal ratio so if £100m was injected into the club for working capital and transfer kitty then the new owenrss would have fo provide £55m and the Dr £45m. It’s not the same as having a single owner like before.”
Indeed, it’s not like having one owner.
But we don’t know what deal has been done.
It could indeed be the case that the new owners have to invest at twice the amount Xia does.
The point is, we just don’t know.
Yes, Xia might make money, if he’s got the deal right.
But I’d guess much is dependent on how soon we get promoted.
I had a look at this Badger as I had assumed £1 shares but if you look at Companies House the number of shares issued or available for issue is very large. I haven’t actually calculated the individual share price but it’s probably nearer 5p per share.
The other assumption is that Sawiris / Edens purchased shares from Dr T but I suggest this is incorrect and they purchased additional share issue which diluted Dr T’s holding with the £30m used to purchase the shares increasing the shareholders funds i.e. providing working capital. Future working capital investment would require Dr. T to match 45% to their 55% otherwise Sawiris / Edens would acquire additional issued share capital further diluting Dr T’s holding. On that basis, ultimately they could buy him out for a fraction of his investment.
In my view this is the most likely structure which allows Dr. T to retain a face saving investment (partial ownership) for which he receives no cash but the club substantially increases it’s working capital and strengthens its balance sheet (I believe this latter point helps with FFP)
Singapore Villan / OLL?
At the risk of boring everyone I should add that Dr T diluting his holding is a better deal for all parties than him selling shares he currently owns. It also aligns with comments about stepped investment / ownership by Sawiris / Edens over time.
The benefit for Dr T is that he hasn’t yet crystallised any losses and if we can get promoted this year (and stay in the prem) the ‘value’ of the club will start to rise. Even with a diluted position Dr T’s shares will start to increase in value thus reducing his loss position. The risk for Dr T. is the degree of dilution suffered calculated on an equation between time, the call on shareholders for additional funds and promotion – but then we know he’s a risk taker!
Read Snodgrass post game comments. If ever there was a ‘come and get me’ plea that was it.
So messrs Sawiris and Edens – go get him please.
system 352 is not the problem, ppl thought it was defensive on this site and others before. but if played correctly its very very attacking. if played badly it can be very defensive. that lays the problem. its not just we don’t have the players. its not that simple. its the type of players we have thats the problem.
watch hayes with or without the ball, without the ball he moves around. not aimlessly, but he supports any player close by who has the ball. its called giving them options. when he has the ball ( he also demands the ball in tight areas) he has good control and good range of passing and he looks forward first and passes through the lines most importantly he is successful at his passes 9 times out of ten.
other players are not as good, they don’t like the press and they panic and launch it long. we have too many players like this in the team. now we have three defenders and none of which are comfortable on the ball, which is why hes trying different types of players their. like jedi and the fullbacks.
we have a major problem trying to play 352. one our goalie cant distribute the ball with his feet. in all the friendlies hes hopeless with his feet. his other keeping duties isnt too bad. but 352 he will need better distribution. also the 3 defenders need to be able to play out from the back and also be able to defend. we got pressed by burton and hammers and both times we panic and boot it aimless down field and gave up possession
another problem is like hitch said kodjia, everything last night and in the other friendlies. he doesn’t run the channels thats bulshit. he stands still and offers nothing. granted the balls to him are aimless placed and nobodies balls but the defenders, but he lacks movement. hayes found grealish lots of times in forward areas. because grealish makes space for himself to receive such forward passes. and hayes is good enough to feed such balls in the split seconds it requires to pull off the move. kodija isnt alive enough to make these moves. he stands still and never looks to get involved
i know its friendlies results dont matter. but i think bill and others and myself are concerned with our approaches in all the games. hammers and burton were good friendlies they showed us problems. its up to us to fix them cause its promotion this year
Nath are we really playing 3-5-2. Looked more like 3-5-1-1 with Grealish in the hole. If we r going to play 3-5-2 we need two strikers on the pitch which Grealish is not.
yeah i think your right. grealish was i think supposed to be close to kodjia, but he drifted back in search of the ball so all ends up, we played 361. grealish isn’t a striker and will always float around.
i think we are trying to play like england tried. sterling in the grealish role and kodjia in the kane role. they are not playing as two out and out strikers, trouble with villa trying to play this system. is kodija doesn’t offer any platform. like kane did. and sterling offered a threat behind and grealish comes short.
the system can work for us, but we need more from kodjia. anybody noticed we made inroads into hammers defence when kodjia was subbed late on. thats no coincidence, its movement and willingness to make space for yourself and pure effort
Your right Nath, I heard Bruce barking out instructions, its that not taking on a player that gets me, we still have them that want to play safe, Bree Taylor make me pull my hair out ,we must have better player’s that game was no different from last year’s.
Great feedback on tactics. I find Kodjia irritating. He is a selfish player, above and beyond a typical striker. I would not shed a tear if we sold him.
Personally I like Davis. I think his ability to hold the ball up and then off load to a midfielder is very good. He is also good in th air. I would expect his finishing to improve this season.
I hope this year some of the U23 strikers can be given a chance and step up to the plate, such as Hepburn-Murphy.
Would Davis / Hogan up front work?
Talking tactics, my preferred formation if we play Kodja is a 4 4 1 1 with hopefully a new goalie De Laet Hutton Chester Elphick Bjarnasson Doyle Hayes or Hourihane Adomah Green Grealish (if not sold) Kodja. If Bruce wants to stick with 3 5 2 then we need Hogan up front to offer movement. On a bright note it looks like Chester is staying thanks to Bruce being kept on.
Glad you never picked Taylor or Bree, if their two players that need to up the game its them two. Chester one of my favourite like you want him to stay, .
Bill, I think Taylor is poor pretty much every game I have seen him play. Bree is still young so can improve hopefully. And another goalie signed on loan today could mean an end to austerity. We still need to offload a few for FFP. Trouble is the big earners like McCormack, Richards and Lansbury will be almost impossible to shift which is why Grealish is most likely to go. He cost us nothing and can bring £25m minimum which will be key.
Fwiw, we shouldn’t be playing a 3/5 at the back.
Nath, you can call it an attacking formation if you want, but with a defensive manager like Bruce, it will never be so.
Yes 3-5-2 looks much more adventurous than a 5-3-2, but it’s just an excuse.
The 5-3-2 will always come to the fore with Bruce, as his mentality is to defend first.
I believe there are times when we can go 3-5-2 against weaker clubs.
And we’ll batter them.
But more canny sides will easily beat this set-up, as our wide defenders are rubbish (Hutton and maybe De laet apart).
our players are rubbish in any system, so doesn’t really matter what system we try to play. ppl who think we are pants because of a system are wrong. hardly no top teams play 442 now. doesn’t mean its a bad system. just most teams are playing systems that overwhelm midfield and 442 is a system that is usually stronger out wide. when i was a wee youngster, everybody played 442 and each team had their own interpretation of this system.so all palyed it slightly different
i wanted a change of manager, so please this year i don’t want to receive hate mail saying iam his love child. bruce or any manager would struggle with our current defenders. none are cultural defenders i would call them haveit players. whack it down field and thats the problem. we are trying to play football out from the back with players not natural to this style.
i hear they got a goalie on loan i never heard of him. but i bet he can use his feet better that our current goalies. bruce seems to want to play out of defence, i have heard him clearly from the touchline . but opposition know we are not great at playing out, they will put the press on the defenders like burton and hammers did. but doing this will leave them wide open to our counters. this maybe the reason bruce thought of playing with this system or style, as teams were sitting back on us loads last year. that and our defenders are rubbish and maybe he wants to go on the attack this year as defence will be pants.
i will be grateful for just having a team out their playing. i thought i would have to pick another club the way we were dissolving. bruce is trying to please the fans. he will struggle big time with the defenders we have. but maybe the players will improve playing out of their comfort zone.
need to do something about kodjia. he isn’t a patch of the player his was before injury. no matter what system we try to play all need a striker who shows up and scores goals.
It’s not whether 3-5-2 is defensive, because that’s not the problem. 3-5-2 doesn’t work because we don’t have a single wingback. A wingback is someone like Sandro, Zuniga, Armero, etc. Not Bree, Hutton, Adomah, etc. Plus you need 3 quality center backs. We have 1 in Chester. There’s a reason why few teams play it. It worked with Chiellini, Bonucci and Barzagli because Chiellini is a beast, Barzagli is a defensive monster and Bonucci can play on the ball. Worked at Napoli with Campagnaro, Cannavaro and another center back for similar reasons. You need three real center backs, two with great defensive abilities and one that can play with the ball. We have 1 center back. 1.
Correct. Hutton was poor at RB, poor at LB and now we are trying him at CB! Why he has a contract at all beats me, he was the culprit at Wembley.
Wingbacks or wingers need to carry a goal-scoring threat themselves. If they cannot cut inside and shoot accurately – all they can do instead is loft a cross from the wing. That is the easiest threat to deal with.
Currently the ball goes wide to the outside CB, the WB ahead of him moves to the wing, the ball is delivered there, and the opposing defence is all in position. The cross is dealt with. That pattern is repeated over and over and carries no threat unless a defender makes a mistake. Villa threaten to score only when they intercept a pass by an opposing defender and at that instant can play a pass that takes out 2 defenders.
You forgot to mention Hutton’s the only remaining member of the bomb squad which means you are still subject to your self imposed exile! LOL
I am Hitch and I haven’t spent a penny on watching Villa since I named my bomb squad – and won’t until Hutton has left or is nowhere near selection.
Respect your honesty and consistency on that OLL. For my part, I think Hutton has earned respect from the fans. No, he’s not perfect by any stretch but he has shown absolute and 100% commitment to the shirt.
If Hutton were to leave tomorrow, by your own rules, you would then go to watch the team. I submit that Richards, Tshbola and McCormack are no better and arguably much worse – the new ‘bomb squad’.
I think you need to broaden your exile horizons! (LOL)
actual wing backs or old traditional wingers or fullbacks can all function in the system 352. the main attribute would be good stamina and probably good ball carrier. they are the players that will do the most mileage. talking about wingers that converted to wing back and improved moses at chelsea. players at the club who have played at wing back loads would be elmo funny how ppl exclude these when naming players that they think cant play wing back at the club
its pointless arguing about other players in other clubs that are better, when the manager can only pick the players we have in the squad. we have players who can play the wing backs and my worry is the back 3 in the system 352. the goalie if thats steer and kodjia.
if the formation is the only worry this season i will be happy. love to know what formation other poster want bruce to play and why.
this is the goalie we apparently signed on loan last night
Villa are yet to make a signing this summer, but are set to bring in their first new face in the form of Andre Moreira
anybody know anything about him
wouldnt surprise me if we got a striker and a defender also
He’s reputedly 6’7″ Nath, we’ll need him to counter our full backs. We need a creative midfielder if we’ve lost Grealish. But what do I know.
Sorry , that’s our goalie he’s 6’5″ this one his taller.
With the departure of John Terry and Chris Samba this summer, Steve Bruce knows that he needs to secure reinforcements at the back.
He should look no further than Dan Burn. The Wigan Athletic man mountain has only one year left on his contract and would jump at the chance to play for a side higher up the league.
The 6ft 7in centre-back was nearly ever-present in a Wigan side that secured a triumphant return to the Championship at the first time of asking. Conceding a mere 29 goals across the 46 games, Wigan’s defensive solidity ensured that promotion was never in doubt. It even transferred to the FA Cup where Burn captained the side in their stunning 5th round 1-0 victory against Manchester City.
The regard he is held at the club is evident by his role as club vice-captain. While Sam Morsy remains the club captain, Burn has been on hand to lead the Latics out whenever he is absent. It is of little surprise. Burn has experience from the Premier League to League One and has consistently proved to be a model professional.
cheers bill
goalie was a must if they are attempting to play out from the back. steer has a square foot. shame really he will have to work on that part of his game.
that wigan defender is in his last year,. so we would require a fee to buy i doubt we will go for him. we are short in some areas and with whats left of window we need to strengthen that is clear to see from the warm up games.
for those that said ignore ffp its only loose change fine lol qpr were fined 42 million for their over spending.
I’ve just seen QPR been find 17 million over ffp, albeit was on facebook and a poster corrected him saying point’s would be taken off . anyone heard ?.
my sources are same unreliable, but we should hear soon the proper figures.
Sorry Nath didn’t read your ..
no worries bill
i wonder how bad the finances are concerning ffp at villa. i am sure its best to keep that shit secret, so they can get decent prices when they sell players. but as fans its frustrating not knowing.
it seems like bruce wants to keep chester and grealish, but if we have to raise funds,who will they sell ?? i couldnt see anybody wanting our shit. might get loose change for some deadbeats hardly gonna clear the debts
QPR have agreed a settlement of almost £42m with the English Football League after an arbitration panel dismissed the Championship club’s claims that Financial Fair Play rules are unlawful.
The settlement includes a £17m fine, paying £3m of the EFL’s legal costs and the agreement from club shareholders to write off £22m of outstanding loans.
QPR will also be under a transfer embargo for the January 2019 window.
It is believed the EFL have agreed to a payment schedule over 10 years
this is whats on bbc website. seems like its not a slap on the hand or sit in the corner for 5 mins punishment
And in the meantime, Man Citeh breach the rules with a massive stadium sponsorship for £400m to get around FFP. Double standards and a bloody disgrace.
your spot on. its clearly a rule that safe guards top clubs wanting to stay there, while hindering smaller clubs, wanting to get a bigger slice of the bigger clubs tv money
Why haven’t we had a decent goalkeeper in decades? Was Bosnich the last decent ‘keeper before he left for ManU?
I’ve said it before, the FA should be investigated how they operate, the law as it stands can put small cubs out of business. I’d like to know who’s on the FA board are they independent of not being on football cub boards.
Just wondering if our new owners could put together a shell company (see stories about Trump’s crooked lawyer Cohen) and call it ‘Villa Investments’ or something.
Get this company to bid £60 million for naming rights for the ground so it would now be re-named ‘Villa Park’.
Just a thought.
Don’t blame me if it’s daft, it’s too bloody hot right now.
The fine was £17m. Most of the rest was capitalising loans. Villa have already done that bit. I would take a £17m fine all day long for promotion to the Prem, and so would Villa’s owners.
QPR had a wage bill twice their total turnover. That won’t happen at Villa. The owners are rich enough to find an answer through sponsorship and other avenues, plus they have the advantages already mentioned on here of change of ownership.
Bruce will get 10 games to prove he is up to it. He isn’t. Next manager is key. Probably too big a gamble with Henry, but we should get a far better manager with the potential at the club under the new owners.
I was in the keep Bruce camp when stories of Henry was circulating, but I’m hoping this 5 3 2 formation gets kicked into touch pronto. I agree with the obvious fact that we only have 2 recognised centre backs, and only one is decent, therefore we are playing the likes of Hutton and Adomah out of position. I know there will be those who say it’s a 3 5 2 formation but that needs quick wing backs which we are lacking. I want Green to start but he can’t spend all his energy tracking back, and Adomah struggles for 90 minutes. I fear if he perseveres with this then we could struggle early on, and that would cost him his job. It looks unlikely Hogan will be fit to start the season so that leaves Kodja as main striker, and he’s been pants since returning from injury. It seems Kieran Davis has fallen out of favour in pre season and Knibbs suddenly propelled into contention. We need to go to Hull with the attitude we are Aston Villa and we are here to win. My worry is there will be more defensive players than attacking in the line up which is let’s not lose approach. I hope I’m proved wrong.
There’s nothing major to write a new post about yet, so I’ll just keep chucking my tuppence views in here.
Re FPP, I’ve said this before.
Sawaris has enough clout via his companies to sort some sort of deal for naming rights.
I predicted £25 mill a year and I don’t believe that’s out of order.
It’s not that important, imo.
What is important and much more the whole point of FPP, is that clubs don’t go bust and are totally terminated.
This is totally not what the leagues want and imo, is a good thing.
I think many people forget that.
My stance is that as long as our debts (or a certain percentage) can be guaranteed to be paid back, there’s no major problem.
And this is what I fully expect to see.
As for the 3-5-2, I’m guessing it’s just a trial based on the fact that we won’t be getting anyone in.
Will Bruce retain it?
Not a chance, especially if he can buy the odd reinforcement.
A defended-minded manager, going with that set-up?
I’m not even going to entertain the thought.
And Nath, you can call it whatever you want, but it will always be 5-3-2 in disguise, with the idea that we’re better in defence than attack.
If Bruce’s stance doesn’t change to a more attacking style, he isn’t going to last long.
Edens, especially, will be looking for entertainment.
Bruce gone in October. Remember this comment 😉
Bearing in mind I’ve been very supportive of Bruce, overall.
Letting you all know lads today’s game is on Aston Villa’s media Channel at 2 a clock our time. Dynamo Dresden .Draw for me. 2-2 .
it isn’t defensive badger, but if you insist it is its cool. all formations are as good as the players players using them. 352 has been used by loads of clubs and some have proven its worth. wolves last year for one, chelsea a few years back another the list is endless.
where you are mistaken in my view, its not 5 across the back, its never meant to be that. some clubs play this system wrong. like villa last year. all systems need practice to work. also need the right sort of players in the system and lastly like all systems needs the players buying into them
i think bruce wants to build up pressure on oppositions, by controlling the game more. last season villa just lost control of games and couldnt regain control. this system would give grealish the ball, further in the opponents half and less coming deep into our half to pick up the ball.
present we havent cracked the system yet, mainly without the ball, they have struggled and with the ball they haven’t been too bad. when this system works well. you can overwhelm the opposition. you can stop countering attacks and box your opponents inside their half.
we need some recruitments thou, hopefully a quality defender and a striker. they got another goalie, hopefully he will be able to distribute the ball better. as well as saving the ball and good handing, that sort of shit.
another concern is kodjia. i thought it was just me, but loads of villa fans have seen this. where is the real kodjia. he is so slow making decisions or just moving a to b. you know when a player is struggling, when they complain about everything to referee. or take ages getting off the floor. i think he is playing 50% of his full effort. why because he doesn’t want to get injured again, but this cant continue or, no matter the system we are gonna struggle. if he could regain confidence in his own body and his form would return. he used to hold up the ball with little effort. tricky to tackle but now he surrenders the ball with ease.