So the conversation has turned to how Bruce gets on with the likes of McCormack, who to my mind doesn’t stand a chance of ever starting for the Villa, while Bruce is in charge.
There are opposing views that say he should be played while we’re paying his wages and it’s a fair argument.
£40-50k a week is a lot of money to be sat on the sidelines.
But having thought about it, McCormack isn’t really the issue.
Much more important is will Bruce be our manager, when this season starts?
I know Bruce is Marmite to Villa fans.
Some like the stability that retaining him would bring. He’s a steady manager that has experience of getting clubs promoted.
I’m happy to say I’m in this club.
But I also see that his football is too defensive on the whole (I’d suggest we’re attacking enough at times, but it doesn’t matter) and it’s probably his wanting to retain the same eleven that might have cost us.
I don’t quite see the “dinosaur” comments, but do accept that he seems reluctant to play the kids.
You probably know my views, which are that if we play a team of kids, we’ll be annihilated in the Championship.
Skill doesn’t count so much as grit and balls.
Kids just don’t have it, for me.
For example, Grealish had been poor and it’s only recently that he’s learned about how much hard work is actually required if you want to succeed in the Championship. And he is our best bet!
The point is I believe there’s a disconnect in the game our kids are playing, as opposed to the Championship.
We’re too geared to the Prem.
The Prem2 or whatever it is called just doesn’t involve tackles and it’s not a decent breeding ground.
Fortunately, it also means kids don’t dive or cheat like the real game.
But I digress.
Which brings me back to the main point.
Bruce is on a rolling one year contract, I believe.
I’ve heard talk that it might cost us money to sack him, but I don’t see how that’s so.
Whereas if we do sack him, we have to pay out another contract to get another manager in.
Could we get another manager on the same sort of contract?
I doubt it.
So if we’re looking at say, a 3 year contract, it’s going to cost more money.
No chance, I reckon.
All that said, what does Xia think of Bruce?
This is the important part and what could be the decider.
At the end of the day, Bruce failed.
It’s as simple as that.
And isn’t the Chinese way of thinking that failure is not acceptable? (Is it? That’s how it seems, but I’m guessing).
I suspect that Xia would sack Bruce tomorrow, if he could.
But the simple fact is that I don’t believe we can afford to sack him.
And then we also have to consider that Bruce might not want to work at a club that is struggling and has to sell it’s best players to survive.
I’ve put a Poll up, but please remember, it’s not about if you want him, but about if you think he will stay.
[polldaddy poll=10040246]
I can’t see past Bruce staying.
And I don’t know if that’s good or bad, tbh.
Bruce has to stay ……. what other mad man would want to come to our club, when its obvious we have to sell our best players just to survive financially and our owner doesn’t have a clue how to run a football club.
I suspect there would be a massive queue of people willing to have a go.
We’re still “the Villa” after all.
But yes, point taken.
Bruce won’t go anywhere.
He’s said himself a few times he’s waited 20 years for an opportunity to manage a club this size, he’d be a bit barmy to jack it in wouldn’t he?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, SB cost Villa the play off final. You don’t play a a 5 man defence and just 1 striker in play-off semi’s and final, and expect to win. And then come the final in desperation bring on 2 strikers in the last 15 minutes!…To my mind football is all about goals, and if you’re ultra defensive(as Bruce is), then you’re up against it from the off; IT’S SIMPLES!!!
Voted no being hopeful. But obviously the answer is yes.
i voted si (yes) but only because we probably cant afford to change managers. bruce has failed his objectives. he had one of the best squads last season on paper. but he failed to get the best out of them. if he failed last season under better terms, next season when the hardships hits, i have less confidence he will be getting the best out of the squad with lesser palyers
there is another point to mccormack and tishbola both went on loan, but we paid most of their wages i heard. now this can’t happen next season. our playing squad will be thinner next year, it will have to be. so having 60k ish paid for two players not even considered for our team, will be a handicap against us.
You should have had a don’t know button Badger – it would have won by a street!
I agree that Bruce won’t just leave of his own accord; he doesn’t strike me as a quitter BUT if I recall correctly he walked away from Hull over a row with the Board. I suspect he’s a principalled man and we don’t know how he feels about the Wyness situation – just as an example.
in regard to compo if Bruce is on a 12 month rolling contract there will still be notice periods etc. In the terms so I guess there will be some compo involved if Xia decides to remove Bruce – and then if Xia loses overall control of the club who will the incoming owners want?
Tough question Badger – will he / won’t he?
Hmm, I guess it all depends what was in the contract, Hitch.
It could be possible that there is no notice period at all.
Remember Bruce basically said he knew nothing about the contract, because he wasn’t interested.
You’d expect his advisors would have been though.
No doubt we’ll find out in October, when his contract expires.
Which is not a bad time to get rid, if it goes boobs up.
Off topic – apologies Badger but also tangentially relevant I think.
I’ve been hopping around various sites trying to get more info on all things financial – fat hope – but did come up with a few interesting bits.
Apparently we have forward borrowed against the outstanding payments for Vertout, Sanchez and Amavi in order to help with the current cash flow (theses charges recorded at Companies House) and I’m really confused by this next bit – does Hutton have a new contract – it seems that talks were postponed because of the ongoing cash problems.
I thought talks were postponed, but then we definitely signed him?
I might be wrong, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest we haven’t signed him.
The whole of the club needs looking at , its easy to start pointing fingers after the damage been done, who would take the club on the way we are financially?
Yes he played his game by being a defensive, we all knew that from day one , look at the useless managers we had before him, I’m sorry to say we are in the shit as from now, Bruce had his chance so move him on, just look around how many young managers are being imployed , lets do the same find a young up and coming ex player and run with him. But first find out what Dr Xia doing we are not being told anything behind the club, he’s holding us back.
What’s the latest entry at companies house all about ? 142m capital ?
Without investigating I suggest it represents the number of shares at £1 that can be issued. We know that Xia increased the potential share capital recently. It does not represent the market value of he club
The other point I should have added is that if the club (Xia) sell these additional shares to a third party or parties it dilutes the value (not cost) of the shares held by Xia. It also means that Xia would have to put in place a shareholders agreement – these are always problematic as OLL has alluded to in the past – in straight forward terms think consortium ownership.
Agreed Hitch.
At first, I thought this might have been a way to improve the balance sheet, but no, the shares are allotted at nominal value.
So Xia is looking for 57 million odd max, shares of the company, which seems to equate to 40%.
But that’s based on Xia having paid £85 mill.
I’d guess 40% of the club now would be nearer £20 million (Mcap of £50 mill?).
And if you take into account that we’re going to have to sell our biggest assets as it stands, the Mcap will be even lower.
I don’t see how Xia can do anything other than be taken over unless he still has money to put in the pot.
With you Badger but it may be even more complex. Let’s say Xia paid £65m for the club and then increased shareholders funds by buying another £20m of shares rather than loaning money to the club. If subsequently he has provided further funds in the way of loans he may now want to do a debt for equity swap which might be appealing to a new investor – say another £20m which leaves 40m shares available or around 35% ownership which pretty much equates to the sort of numbers being bandied around in the press.
BUT why would anyone want to buy into a minority stake with £40m when they could probably buy the club for that post administration so in reality what sort of price are those 40m shares going to attract – 30p – 40p per share?
So, in reality for £30 – £40m any investor would want a majority share holding which would require Xia to basically surrender a large amount of his shareholding at a nominal value and take a massive financial hit.
No wonder he’s gone quiet – anyway I look at this I think he’s in trouble (that’s being polite)
Simple. Bruce is the architect of our downfall and must go!
I don’t think we can get rid of him, nor do I think Bruce will walk out. His stock is a little tarnished currently and I think he knows Villa is the biggest he’ll get if he walks away now. I think what his son said about wanting to see it through is the likely scenario.
You should have a “hope so” option. Bruce failed to take us up with an expensive squad. When it gets torn apart he’s not going to do it next season either. Maybe its the British way – reward failure.
The squad are due back 3rd July, so just a week away, and then head to Portugal on the 4th if my memory serves me correctly. Probably players like Jedinak and Bjarnasson will get extra time off. Because of this I expect Bruce to still be in charge. If Xia doesn’t have Bruce in his plans then there needs to be another appointment in the next week. I said after the Fulham game I would give him till end of November and see where we are. However considering the chaos that is happening, I think whoever we have as manager will need to keep unity amongst players at least. There is only one manager I would consider other than Bruce, and that is Dean Smith who has worked wonders on a shoestring. If we are to get him, we need to do it now, that’s assuming he would want the job.
Personally the club is lucky to have Bruce right now instead of someone like Sherwood. The media coverage this month has been damaging enough, I can’t imagine the media circus Sherwood would have created on top of everything else.
Side note, given the giant spotlight already on the club, why has their been little to no rumors of possible suitors/investors since Wyness’ sacking? The club is usually a leaky ship when it comes to these stories.
For reference, Bruce’s contract expires on Oct 12.
Marvin, I’d guess Wyness was putting it about that the club needed to be sold.
In fairness, I suspect that he had to court suitors, so that there was no possibility that we were trading while insolvent, which is a legal responsibility as a director.
That’s why I suspect he’ll win his unfair dismissal case and we’ll have to cut a deal with him.
Xia must have known that, via his advisors, yet he still decided to sack him.
I find that part quite odd, but guess it’s just about Xia’s pride and not wanting to fail.
Another thing I found odd, is that Xia is descibed at companies house as a “Business executive” as opposed to “Company Director” or “Chairman”.
Read into that what you will. Maybe it’s just a Chinese thing, where there’s only one Chairman?
Badger – it might be that Wyness took advice on selling the club (or administration) – but let’s concentrate on selling without advising the Board or critically Xia. He may even have gone as far as discussions with potential buyers.
In these circumstances, no matter whether justified or not given the financial circumstances, Wyness may have gone far beyond his authority as CEO.
Of course his contract would run until October, I like a lot of others were thinkong season to season, but a rolling contract will run through October. No chamce of Xia sacking him and paying up his contract I would think.
Here’s what is claimed to be the latest on the Xia saga – as of this morning
The culture of Chinese business means Tony Xia is under pressure not to sell Aston Villa for less than the £85 million he paid for the club, according to an expert in Far Eastern football finance.
Prof Chadwick, professor of Sports Enterprise at Salford University, and is an expert in Chinese investment in football and says the likes of Athletico Madrid, Inter Milan and Slavia Prague have seen income dry up after Far Eastern authorities warned investors to stop taking so much money out of the country.
He said the Villa owner would be feeling the pressure to “save face” in his home country. He said businesspeople in China can feel deep embarrassment from selling investments for less than they were bought for.
BirminghamLive exclusively revealed today that Xia discusses had been contacted by two parties interested in taking over Villa.
He rejected a 51 per-cent offer from a European bidder yesterday.
Prof Chadwick said he would feel pressire.
He said: “There is also the issue of saving face in Chinese society. That is huge for Chinese people.
“For Tony Xia to exit Aston Villa would be losing face for him at home. He would not want to leave without making a profit.”
It is understood a A financial package of up to £40million of investment was put forward to Aston Villa – which values the club at less than Xia paid for it.
Negotiations with two other serious bidders are now planned as the Chinese owner tries to find a way out of the current mess.Both parties are weighing up offers for control or outright purchase.
Speaking to BirminghamLive last month, Prof Chadwick said conditions in China had not helped Xia’s plans to invest in Villa.
He explained: “Last July, the Chinese authorities felt they were suffering from lots of people moving money off shore so they Government clamped down on it .
“As a consequence, money flowing away from China has slowed down.
“And other football owners have felt this, like Wang Jianlin, who sold part of his 20 per cent ownership stake in Spanish team Atletico Madrid.
“He was forced to do that. And Tony Xia may well be in the same position.
A fair assessment Hitchens. So we are back in the familiar position of having an owner who wants out. We have had a few years of that and it hasn’t been pretty. There are millions of unsophisticated investors in China, They can be lured into buying a few shares in a grand enterprise which will invest in a surefire get rich quick scheme abroad.
The number of people prepared to take a punt is amazing. When the Shanghai Rubber Futures Market opened last year, it quickly ran up a trading record whereby a larger tonnage of rubber futures changed hands in one day, than the total of the world’s production of rubber in a year. So I think it possible that behind Xia isn’t a few savvy investors who have staked millions each but millions of rookie investors who have staked modest sums. Not losing face as the Prof said is very important, and the more people you lose face to the worse it is.
I would love to be proved wrong, but I doubt Xia will fund another spending spree even if FFP allowed it. What I think we have is another slow learner.
Love the pun OLL
An exciting read, although now I can’t help but think a new kit reveal would be a perfect time to announce new ownership.
Well there may be potential buyers in the horizon. Does this mean our once sexy football club will be passed from one owner to another, like a clapped out whore between pimps?
Is there a Henry Higgins out there who can bring out the beauty in our club again?
Will our Doolittle manager learn to trust and bring through our youth and make a success of his purchases.
Sid – spot on; that’s the risk. It’s beginning to look like we are following the path trod by Leeds. Heaven help us!
Indeed.
There are so many questions, that it’s beginning to look like an episode of “Soap” (anyone remember that?).
It doesn’t take much to see that a consortium buys the club on the cheap, then asset-strips it and gets most of it’s money back, while being left with the esteem that comes with owning an English football club that’s frankly worth very little and has no hope of achieving anything.
It’s all quite scary.
But even then, it would seem Leeds’ fortunes have suddenly turned round massively.
The latest
Two parties remain seriously interested.
Both are considering offers for 51 per-cent of control or an outright purchase.
So far there has been no formal offer although early discussions have taken place.
It’s understood that they will both be able to pump serious investment into the club if a deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile. the European group who had a 51 per-cent offer rejected on Tuesday have not returned.
They were willing to meet Xia’s financial demands but the bid was still knocked back.
At least two other groups – one of whom were linked with a takeover bid before Xia took control in 2016 – are also on the scene.
Representatives from an American group visited Villa Park on Monday and officials from the other party were in the Midlands on Tuesday.
Other smaller consortiums have shown an interest but were quickly ruled out as they wanted a cup-price deal.
Getting interesting now,
With the players coming back and new recruits already being considered, let’s hope next week is a busy one for Xia. This summer seems to be flying by. I’m sure Bruce can get the squad prepared, but it will be difficult to keep them focused if they are worried about getting paid.
i confess i am worrying about villa this upcoming season. we have already lost players from last season team, i fear more will go players like adomah, chester grealish and kodjia add these to the ones already gone back to their clubs and we will be a shadow of last season.
i don’t believe we will be in a position to buy players, or even get freebies as their wages are generally high, i think the manager will have to make do with the youth and what players are left after the fire sales. loans will be made but i bet they will be young and cheap wages.
i know grealish will leave this summer, but won’t this weaken DRX sale of the club, who would buy a motor car of a bloke, when he says hell be taking the engine out and his wheels,they are not part of the sale.
any hopes of a quick sales won’t happen as the DRX cant sell for a loss on his investment, or china will have him commit hari kari in public square
i just need a glimmer of hope to cling too. i cant remember ever being less optimistic about a upcoming season as this one.
p/s hari kari is a japanese thing i know its all asia to me
Nath – if Dr. T is in serious discussions with groups over either a total sale of the club or sale of a majority stake then I would be very surprised to see any player sales taking place before a new owner is in place.
I know I’m being boring but if we solve our cash flow problems through new investment in the club then we have time to look at how to best deal with FFP and we won’t be under pressure to make Fire sales.
Also a new owner might bring in a new manager – as Badger pointed out Bruce’s contract runs out early October.
I can’t help but think we are now coming to the nub of the crisis – the next week or so is critical to the future of our club.
well lets hope your right. its the grealish sale which makes me most fearful to lose. we are never gonna replace him for the season. if we can some how manage to keep him at villa this summer, who knows we might be in a much better place at jan window.
i reckon with the players left at villa and a few decent loans, we could still get promotion. need to address the lack of mobility. down the middle and back. but we have the players if grealish will stay to mount another serious challenge.
if you look back to last season, thou many fans were unhappy with the style, which i wasn’t bothered with, it was all results with me. we were so close to achieving the promotion. where we fell short was two results bolton and qpr. also we dropped points mostly, when we had games straight after a hard game.
watching jedi in world cup australia never deployed him as a deep laying midfielder, that was one of my main grumbles last season. with having terry in defence. you are always gonna be susceptible to the ball in behind your defence. having jedi as the holding midfielder. he couldn’t cover this or was mobile to cover infront of the back line,this was exploited in the final.
terry has gone so new defence will be sought, hopefully we will have more pace to be able to press high in games, mix up the tactics and if we have to play a holding midfielder. i hope they pick somebody who is mobile enough to do that job. INTERESTING tishbola could play the role, but he would need to improve his passing and cut out mistakes. but he has the attributes to do that role if called on. lyden can also play this role he does for the under 23