This is my very first article ever, and could be my last…..I have tried to be as none judgmental as possible, but here goes
There has been much speculation over the last few days and I personally think the writing is on the wall, as they say, “Rumors only come about to prepare us for the outcome”
Red Bull is an Austrian owned business, its high level drink was created in 1987 and was the inspiration to improve performance of high extreme sports, since then the company has gone onto purchasing many sports business’s which have had significant impact in their sports areas, the most notable one being Formula 1, however it has increased its branding in most sports, all of its sports teams have to include the Red Bull name due to its branding status. Another notable item that includes the brand name is the sport home or venue, for example Red Bull Leipzig FC plays at its home stadium Red Bull Arena, and New York Red Bulls home is also Red Bull Arena. If you focus on Football alone it has four current teams in leagues in Austria, Germany, Ghana, and Brazil, all at top level within the designated country.
It would benefit the brand greatly if it gained a premiership team or a championship team which would graduate to the premiership in a short spell
I have tried to get some financial reports on the business but because it’s a privately owned business it does not have to declare its P&L, saying this it has 40% of the drinks market and sold around 5 billion cans in 2012. (That alone is a lot of money)
With all of its branding products it does have a very attractive portfolio when it comes to injecting finances into its projects, 2.2 billion on Formula 1 in 2012.
So I guess the outstanding question is as Villa fans and a product of our own for 140 years, would we accept a dramatic change in Colours, Team Name, and Ground Name, and a New Club Strategy.
Now before any of you go off on one, this site has bemoaned continually for Lerner, Faulkner, and Lamberts head over the past 2 months, some for the past 3 years, so at what price are you prepared to go to, so you are happy with the club? Remember change is always inevitable in our ever demanding society but at what cost is it acceptable.
One more thing to think about no other business has been linked with Villa except Red Bull.
VTID mate my train of thinking is Red Bull have already conquered motor sport and own football clubs in other country,s and i think this is the way things are going to go.We are going to see an end to the one man ownership of clubs they are going to be owned by global company,s like Red Bull whom in turn will make those clubs success full so as to promote their brand and another thing we Villa fans must realise is the man who is their adviser on football one Gerard Houllier.
Think we might be Red Bull Aston Villa FC before long
I would openly weep buckets, like a child if we were ever renamed in that fashion. Fuck their money if that’s their plan.
I feel for the Cardiff fans and Hull at present. Can’t these owners see they are killing the love for these clubs?
Sorry, but changing Villa’s name, color, or grounds would be an injustice to the supporters, league and sport as a whole. For a founding club, with a rich history stretching over 140 years, it’s just unacceptable to change such things for the sake of a ‘progress’ or some pipe dream. Don’t forget Lerner said he wanted Champions League football as well. So what do we have left when Red Bull are unable to achieve our goal as Lerner has been unable to do?
What sort of message does that give the rest of the football world when a European Champion can be bought out and changed to fit a marketing campaign?
I agree all of us here will always consider Villa Park as Villa Park, but what are future generations going remember? All they’d know is Red Bull Park or Aston Villa Red Bulls. Our history is priceless and I think it is ridiculous to pawn our identity off without considering future consequences.
With you 1000%. I can hear Langford now “Fuck off Austrians, the Red Bull Villa are ours”!
Hey lads don;t think Langford needs Red Bull probably to near to his wings already like me Ha Ha.
The GH thing is a new one on me, makes even more sense to my thinking now. It’s amazing how so many supports say they accept a new branded name.
Roll on the future AVFC
R.B. is a big company but also this one has a limit. Figure of 5 billions sold cans are right, could be up to 5.5 billions in 2013. As I know this company a little bit they can make about 0,50 Euro´s (0,40 English pounds) per can. That makes 3,5 – 4,0 billions Euro´s a year. If the mentioned Formula 1 figures of 2.2 billions are right and you are putting all the other marketing activities and costs into, than I can´t believe they will spent big. If they go for an English club they wouldn´t do a takeover of a big one. They would take a smaller one and would try to build them. I think they try to launch their product in China atm. This launch will cost quite a fortune, so I can´t see this Villa rumour happen anyway.
Red Bull spent about £250million on F1 last season, I don’t see what the figure of 2.2billion (euros, presumably) comes from, or how you could possibly spend that much on going racing anyway. Ferrari spend about £250million too, along with RB they’re the biggest spenders in F1.
I took my figures from the post without thinking about it – you are absolutely right with yours. Anyway, they are heavily involved in a lot of marketing activities and can´t see a big investment in a prominent team in England, which would be a very expensive exercise.
I dont think the name or colors will need to change at all, if they plan to pump in hundreds of millions then the fact we will be competing at the top, signing big name players and may get champions league would give them enough exposure.
millions or no.. there is
no guarantee of success unless you are willing to spend toe to toe with ambromivich,the sheik, FSG or the 800m and counting fans of man U.
then you still face the shrewd operating Spurs and the miracle of Everton who have not 1/10th the resources any of those clubs spend but still seem to compete.
its a dynamic competition not a rigid benchmark
there are no magic fail safe methods or minimum targets to hit to ensure x or y.
I don’t know why a company like RB would enter that scenario with their ultimate goal of brand recognition and market share growth.
for 250m they could make themselves the main sponsor or stadium name on a few of those top clubs .. the relative success is already there so the recognition would be achieved for a fixed sum not an ongoing money pit of club ownership.
Also, if brand recognition in the CL or prem is the goal there are cheaper options in the championship or abroad in the benelux leagues or france or whereever. monaco and psg proved better prospects to the last two sugar daddies to enter the club ownership game.
I still don’t know what to think of the 90m accounting gesture .. it signals an imminent sale as much as it signals longer term commitment from the current ownership.
I haven’t’t a clue which it is yet I haven’t seen any convincing arguments for one over the other yet.
my gut feeling is though that it is significant .. 90m .. has never been insignificant.
I did some research on the other football clubs that are owned by RB. Buying an EPL team would/is a complete different monster than RB has done before. The Austrian and German teams that were bought are not in the same boat.
FC RB Salzburg- founded in 1933, this club has already had THREE different names in its history. RB purchased when the club was near bankruptcy. They negotiated with fan/support groups for months and could not reach an agreement regarding tradition/history/etc. FC RB Salzburg was formed and claimed a new club with no history. The fan/supporters group then founded a new club SV Austria Salzburg (clubs original name) and started over again. Again, a much smaller club than AVFC with little success/history by comparison, plus facing financial ruin.
New York Red Bulls- RB did not follow this ‘new club, new history’ tactic with the NY Red Bulls, they elected to keep the history and tradition of the former New York MetroStars, formed in 1995. They did revise kits, new stadium, etc.
RB Leipzig- this club was formally called SSV Markranstädt, they were founded in the 1940’s. This original club went through EIGHT name changes until RB bought their football license in 2009. This club was also in serious financial trouble. German leagues didnt allow sponsor name in club name so they use RB initials instead. RB tried to purchase a different Leipzig club initially (one with a rich tradition) and were unsuccessful due to bad press and fan protest.
Both European clubs were starting at the bottom of the league- I believe both were in 4th or 5th division when purchased. Much smaller clubs with smaller history, etc. They both played in stadiums smaller than 12k. They both now play in a ‘Red Bull Arena’ that seats over 40k.
I got alot of this info from Wiki and related sites (I actually checked the reference links). The reason for this info is to give some context regarding current clubs they own. RB purchased clubs at the bottom for rock bottom prices, built new stadiums and started fresh to compete. RB purchasing an EPL team will be completely different than this. They will spend more upfront for the purchase, stadiums are already larger, already in the best football league for TV revenue/sponsorships/exposure. They have shown a willingness to work with fans and keep tradition/history.
I guess what I’m saying is I’m not convinced that RB will come in and try to rebrand and change everything- there is too much history to just wipe it away. I do believe/expect them to clean house and hire new staff, rebrand Villa Park, revise kits (hopefully not the home kit). But change the name Aston Villa?? I’m not convinced that will happen.
VTID
Do u think this takeover will happen EJS1111 and if so will we be able to compete with the top four?
Personally I do believe a takeover is coming. I don’t know if it’s RB or another billionaire type. The $90 million explanation from Ian and others is spot on in my opinion. It appears that RL is clearing debt and cutting costs to make AVFC look better on paper.
Unless our new owner is oil money or a tech giant like Bill Gates, I still see us struggling to compete top4. Sky4 teams just have more money than even a Red Bull ownership. Best case scenario for me would be a billionaire owner with the mentality of the New York Yankees owner. This family lives and breathes Yankee baseball, they only want to see their baseball team win championships.
This is the type of owner I would love to see at AVFC
I hope it’s someone like the Yankees owners too. Or a Russian or shiek. I think it is likely to be red bull though which like you say means we will be nothing more than a top 10 team. Gets more depressing as we would prob have to change our name etc for that.
That said… RB taking over would still be a vast improvement over RL. RB would make us much more competitive, we would fight for Europe ever year and occasionally challenge top4 for champions league in my opinion.
I would be ecstatic with that personally.
Here’s to hoping!
VTID
True but unless we get into CL we will never move forward as a club. If someone like RB come in they would have to spend around £200-250m in players to get us challenging for honours again. Do you think they would sirens that? Plus they would need to get us a top proven coach as lambert is out of his depth.
200-250m? Not really, no. This is the time to come in for a new owner of a team like Villa. 40-50m and we could be challenging for a top 4. Another 50m and an intelligent manager would put us fighting for trophies as well as top 4. I guess you meant the league, than yes, unless we get a scout that can find talents where clubs don’t want them. Looking at Inter’s youth is a good start. The EPL’s quality is garbage at the moment and really 1 team should be feared in City, Chelsea are sporadic and while Liverpool are incredible up front in Suarez, their defense is less than credible for title challenging. Spurs, United, Everton, Newcastle and Southampton wouldn’t be hard to catch with 50m being spent on a few midfielders and a LB. United are wasting their time on the likes of Hamsik, Verratti, Gundogan, Vidal, Pogba and Marchisio who they have no chance of getting. Liverpool despite linked have signed no one, Arsenal are linked with some top players but the 2 positions needed they’re linked to no one good other than Costa who won’t happen. Mourinho doesn’t want a striker so Chelsea aren’t getting any better. The quality of the EPL isn’t there and we wouldn’t need that much to fight for a top 3-4 place as up front and at the back bar LB I can see us doing well enough. I’d change the entire midfield including Delph and allow Bacuna to play but that’s about it.
Not sure I agree remember utd etc will spend big this summer to compete. Even man city’s away form is dodgy they lost to us ffs. I think Chelsea will win the league this season because of mourinho and it’s usually tge team that eeks out the 1.0 wins home and away that win it as opposed to the team that wins 5.0 most of the time bit like Argentina a couple of world cups ago they stuffed everyone in group stage but only made it to quarters I think.
Again Andrew that’s all true but the problem is still the same. Lerner has put something of the order of £200M into Aston Villa (sure IanRobo could come in here). It’s not unreasonable for him to want that back. Then add your £50-100M to challenge (across a couple of years that will bring heavy losses to be subsidised) and you have a £250-300M project. Ouch! Villa must be unique outside the Top 6 in having such a high starting point for such a plan.
Well straight from faulkner a mouth. We are making progress and lambert is great and wev made a big improvement. No further signings this month reading between lines. We are fucked. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-fan-frustration-paul-3022097?
This Red Bull thing wont go away, tbh i dont know what to think, if the name changes i will still be going to Villa Park etc. The rebranding of stadiums has helped some clubs purchase at least one player extra due to the extra revenue.
I am not a massive fan of marketing, but the bottom line in this modern world of sports is simple tradition, history and all the rest simply do not pay the bills or bring in players of the standard required to keep us happy and the club where it belongs, as much as i am proud of our past it wont sign Messi for us.
One of the benfeits of not having just an out and out owner is accountability we have all been pointing fingers at owners managers and ex managers, in this case maybe heads will roll when things go wrong something i cant remember ever happening at VP, just silence and silly PR
If someone comes in the foundations are there for a massive club, we have great support the crowds have been big this season considering the standard of football served up week in week out, great training facilities and a great stadium.
If someone was to buy us out we need a DOF of Houlliers standard who worked on youth and scouting, not on first team affairs. We would need a great coaching staff with a style of play and philosophy that ran through out the club. If all the right boxes get ticked to take Villa forward then i am sure most fans would be happy.
Dont understand all of the anger towards Holt, he has come in on the cheap, he is older so no club will get a better version of him later on. he is here to replace an injured player. Lambert has said in the press before Kozack got injured we need 3-4 players so i still expect to see 3 or 4 players. my problem this season has been the train crash of a left back we signed in the summer and the awful tactics, this is not Holts fault.
PLEASE SIGN A LB AND A LM/W,
No chance of signings. Well straight from faulkner a mouth. We are making progress and lambert is great and wev made a big improvement. No further signings this month reading between lines. We are fucked. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-fan-frustration-paul-3022097?
I thought Randy’s divorce was settled?!
I can’t believe lambert said he wanted a no 10 type player, yet hasn’t even made an offer for anyone yet, I don’t think an offer was even made for hoolahan just speculation and guess work. So what’s he doing? 7 ml will prob get someone half decent I bet holtby would come for that much. I don’t get it. Lerner wake up it’s not going to dent your wallet and it may keep us up which will in turn make you 5 times that!
Giggy well done Kiddy Harriers.
Lol bill why not call me GiGi mate. 😀
Adam, he’ll probably move Bacuna into the number 10 slot.
Giddy. Ffs.
Cheers mate we’ve managed to do what the villa couldn’t it’s fucking laffable bring on the mackems. UTH
I think he signed holt for political reasons. Ie to help him in the dressing room which I think he’s lost tbh
Ooha ive said it before lambert needs mates ie hoolahan & now holt he’s obviously losing the changing rooms & wants these wise heads to build bridges with the team.i think it’s laffable mate.
Spot on giddy. It’s a political signing someone that will watch lamberts back for him.
haha there is debate and opinion and then there extensions of that..
can you expand on the obvious way that Lambert has lost the dressing room.
and he needs his “mates”
also .. can anyone expand on the idea that the 90m shuffle in the corporate accounts is an effort and i am para phrasing here
…” to make us look good on paper..”
KPMG should start their next recruitment drive from this site.
We can sniff out corporate accounting tricks and clever feats of financial engineering that poor niave prospective billionaire businesss or business owners would miss.
Sorry guys but I think Red Bull ownership is a non-starter. We would be too expensive. It’s as simple as that. Everton would be much cheaper and with a realistic chance of Top 4. We’ve had all the Abu Dhabi speculation and lots of people convinced it was a done deal. Villa, much as we will hate to admit it, are just not an attractive option.
DS i agree they’ll be looking for a team with the potential to win things & entering european competitions we do not fit this criteria im affraid to say mate.
I disagree Everton would be cheaper.
– wage bill is higher
– debts are probably now higher
– huge redevelopment costs for Goodison or a new ground
Actually we would be quite cheap, little debt now, low wage bill, the rubbish cleared out. so you start out on a decent basis and even Lambert has only one year left on his contract in the summer if you want a new manager.
I have no idea why Lambert wanted to come but from a selling prospect he has done well …
Evertons training facilities need massive investment as well
do they though? .. they seem to be be pretty well trained to me judging by their league position compared to ours over the last 10-15 years
Nope. Everton’s debts are way lower than Villa’s. I think to the tune of £80-100M. I think Everton trade at a small loss generally whereas Villa have been doing much worse. We would need a much heavier investment in players to become competitive too.
Debatable as Villa’s team is at least young. Everton’s is aging quite a bit, Howard’s 34, Hibbert’s 32, Jagielka’s 31, Distin’s 36, so that’s 3 of their starting 5 and a sub over 30, an aging 32 year old loaned in midfielder, Osman’s 32, Pienaar’s 31, Kone’s 30 so there’s a few more. They sold their only decent at best back up striker, their current starter’s a loan, Naismith’s proven not to be good enough, Pienaar’s clearly on a downhill slide. While I’d trust (can’t believe I said that) Martinez to do well enough with Everton type money, if they really wanted to have a go, they’d need a lot of replacements and their depth isn’t the best in terms of talent but their starting 11 is of great quality.
Though obviously quality’s massively needed.
That’s certainly true Andrew but I still know what I would do. The ground/training ground improvements situation hasn’t stopped them being in and around the Top 4 this season along with previous ones. In Ross Barkley they have a real talent (where’s our home grown star in the making?). It just looks to my untrained eye that Everton could be a £100M cheaper option to buy. You can do a hell of a lot with that cash, and Villa’s team might be young but how many are of the quality required for the Top 4? Hardly any really.
I honestly believe there is no chance of Red Bull buying Villa. As for an imminent takeover – again I don’t think so. I’m quite happy to be proved wrong though as it’s hard to see any satisfactory improvement without it.
Agreed we have quantity not quality. Look at Liverpool last night Harry someone the new bale apparantly. Club is a joke
Everton won’t finish top 4 though no chance they will bottle it. They will get hammered away to Liverpool in a couple of weeks esp as they are without Barkley.
tradition!!!!!! i hate the idea for us 2 lose our identity, sell out ~ look a hull city ~ they av no history, they av always been shit and their fans will not allow money 2 change there name and owner now is threatening to pull out.
we all want success ~ but 2 wot costs
i see know way this RB is going to happen…its just one man said this one man said that…if RB was going to buy a prem team the red tops would be all over it…at the most it could be the ground name or even just shirt sponsorship not buying us out RL need investment or this could just be smoke and mirrors.
****just a reminder…sky subscribers can Watch Villa play Liverpool in FA Youth Cup 4th rd…its free to sky subscribers…channel 429…Jack Grealish starts for Villa *****
really langford? grealish starting? are you taking the piss ?
are squads even announced yet ?
lol d’oh .. fa youth cup .. against liverpool .. haha very clever
My opinion on a Red Bull takeover?
It’s a load of pony.
I really don’t know where this stems from, but it’s been doing the rounds for what seems like ages.
If above figures are correct, they already pump 250 million a year into F1.
Even for a big company, that’s serious money.
How much they recoup for being sucessful, I don’t know, but doubt they get it back and it’s probably more a marketing exercise.
I’d suggest that’s where they see the best return though; a high energy, fast response type of game that fits what (their frankly utter shite drink) offers.
As for the minnow footy clubs they’ve bought, I’m not sure what the game is.
But it doesn’t seem to be seriously challenging for anything.
So how does the Villa fit into anything?
It doesn’t, to mind.
We’d cost 200 Mill and then need serious money spending.
If I was RB, I’d be looking at a London club.
Like Orient, or as suggested, MK Dons.
Much cheaper and way more room for improvement at much less cost.
Agree mate how about Southampton. Their CE has resigned and rumoured to sell and they play in red and white. RB only have a fortune if around 5b I know that a lot of money but they are 100s of millions into other clubs and racing. Plus like you say they would need £200 to buy and at least that again to turn us into a too 6 team chalking inc for fourth. Can’t see it.