First off, I want to say, the result aside, what a great game that was to watch.
But blimey, that last minute goal practically ripped my guts out.
The worrying thing is I think we all knew it was coming, even that late on.
Which sums it up I suppose, because we simply can’t trust our defence and it isn’t going to get any better this season.
So it was ultimately Engels who made a basic error in letting the ball get past him, when all he had to do was get contact and just hoof it upfield.
I was immediately raving and doing my fruit over him, but on reflection, it doesn’t really matter, as we’ve been prone to this sort of mistake all season and it could have been anyone.
The really annoying thing is I thought we more than held our own against Spurs and would have deserved a point.
Pepe Reina had much to do with this, as he made some great saves, which made him my man of the match.
But I want to give credit to Samatta too, as I thought he played well. He shows good control and the way he flicked one particular ball over and round him, to run on to and see off a defender showed definite class. He works hard and seems to have good awareness of where his team mates are, meaning he lays the ball off nicely.
He’s also often in the right sort of place too, which is frankly a basic requirement for a striker. Oh and he actually heads the ball.
I’ve never seen any of this from Wesley and when you consider we paid twice as much for him, you have to wonder what happened there?
Ok, you get flops, but hmm.
At least when Wesley comes back, he knows he’s got serious competition, which has to be a good thing.
So what went wrong?
It’s hard for me to say, as we definitely put the effort in and tried our best not to give the opposition any time to play.
I do feel we mess about too much at times and I commented about one occasion where Jack took a free, which resulted in the ball being kicked out to one of our mids in the middle of the pitch, who took too much time and then passed to another mid, who also took to much time and was forced to pass back to Reina, because Spurs had pushed out.
To my mind, there’s no excuse for that and we end up giving the ball back to the goalie, when we have most of our players upfield. The ball should be going forwards, not backwards, meaning we keep applying pressure.
It’s a similar thing at the back too, where we mess about too much and look vulnerable to having the ball stolen.
You’d think we would have got away from this by now, but I don’t see it changing with these players.
I think the players are just trained to pause and take a look before passing, but it seems beyond them at this level.
Frankly I just don’t think we’re good enough to play like that at this level.
Ok, Spurs are fifth in the league, I think. But they didn’t look it
Their defence looks equally as vulnerable as ours, but they do have a difference.
They have top class players, the likes of Winks and Son, who can just do stuff that puts the opposition under pressure.
We just don’t have enough of that.
And that, to my mind, is why we lost, when we should have got the point.
We’re just overall not good enough.
That said, that doesn’t mean it’s all doom and gloom.
I thought Spurs weren’t that good. But they’re still fifth in the league and we gave them a game, to say the least. We looked much better for the break and that’s encouraging.
Well, at least I’m not saying we looked poor again.
It’s Southampton away next.
Now that is a critical one.
reina
guilbert mings hause targett
nakamba
ghazi luis grealish tresguet
samatta
i think the emphasis should be on goal scoring now, got to supply samatta and get grealish playing more as attacking central midfielder close as possible to samatta as possible.
p/s reina was awesome against spuds and didnt deserve to concede three goals he was so exposed as well. hopefully mings will return for soton game. who i really rate as a good side. they are great side countering. if we persist playing high and giving the ball away cheaply, we will lose and lose big time again to them. burnley beat them last weekends,but they didn’t play into their hands, they defended deeper and didn’t over load going forwards.
Nath, with all due respect aren’t you arguing against yourself here? I accept the ‘giving the ball away cheaply’ applies whatever formation we use but can we really score goals sitting deep and trying to counter attack. We can play well with the ball when attacking (in numbers?) but it seems we lack the speed necessary for effective counter attacking.
Isn’t the reality that we just don’t have the quality needed to defend effectively therefore your point about ‘going for goals’ has real validity – but to do that I think we have to stick with 3 at the back and hope Reina performs like a god.
Or we literally park the bus and hope to Nick a goal. I would take a 0-0 all day long 🙂
horses for course hitch i would not go hunting against Southampton because their strengths are counter attacking. if you can remember the earlier game against them. if you can watch their last 6 games except their defeat against burnley.
you can attack teams without opening your back door to countering teams. burnley sat much deeper than villa did against spuds. our last defenders where pressing inside spuds half and spuds had the ball without any villa pressure on the ball, which means they could pick their passes with plenty time.
i am not contradicting myself. the formation i posted doesn’t state high press or park the bus=. i chose defenders that could press high and are fast enough and mobile enough to recover if they are got in behind. also nakamba sitting in front of the back four to track the late runs.
i stated to support samatta more cause he was our main threat and he had hardly any support. just think if we actually crossed more to him or had grealish linking up more with him. i believe he can score the goal that will save us.
if we continue to press high into the opposition half, its pointless using engels because he is too slow to recover. its also more important not to give the ball away by over playing. eg el ghazi laying a ball off misplacing it giving the ball away and all the defense is open to the counter. if you pressing suicide high you have to press the ball and you can not press like this for the full game.
playing 2 cb at the back instead of the three means they will be defending the opposition striker and not venturing forwards trying to create width hause and konsa are not wing backs they are poor with distribution, then they are caught out of position. they contributed so little in goals from corners also.
lastly if we stopped trying to play short passes and round the corner lays offs eg over playing keep things simple. hit percentage balls to samata and have players joining him feeding off him. we wouldnt get countered as much and we would still carry a threat. you don’t need to send the full backs forward to over lap the wingers all the time. if they do pick and chose their moments better we wouldn’t be so predictable. also if we played players in their natural environments they would not be making the mistakes they are makeing
Really concerned about the damage Ings and Long can inflict on our fragile defence.
Anybody see Terry giving his opinion on Chelsea defence. Shouldn’t he be looking at his own team first. Kettle and black spring’s to mind. He’s still a Chelsea man. Bring in mellberg or the big Dane
in a earlier post last night, somebody mentioned villa back line not being in line, well most teams have two or three shapes depending on situations, example a defence shape, attacking shape and say corner or attacking free kicks shape, villa attacking shape commits lots of players to work, then say you lose the ball like el ghazi did just inside the opposition half, he played the ball back, but villa are so attack minded committing players to attack, their defence shape is none existent one bad ball and the opposition are through on goal or worst with just one player to beat then on goal.
the transition between our shapes is so slow to happen, this causes us to naturally get countered anyways, teams like soton will look at this villa set up and rub their hands, we are tailored made for the counter.
burnley beat them last weekend playing nothing like expansive we play, they took their few chances they created. they also kept their defensive shape more or less, so when soton regain possession the opportunity to quick counter was not on. the saints struggled massively to create chances compared to when they play a villa team they create loads of chances.
also i proposed we mix up our passing we try to pass short all the time, but this means slow build ups and committing loads to break down the opposition, when we hit samatta longer against spud he managed to get a hold of the ball and feed the midfield. so get grealish playing behind him and hit the ball a little long on occasions, or bring in the wide boys to feed of samatta play more narrow.
staying up we need to score goals and samatta looks to be the right cog to do that. he looked dangerous all the time he was playing. we lost our outlet when he was subbed. but its gonna be important we keep a defensive shape against soton worse thing we do is give the ball away and when we are in our attacking shape its a recipe for a countering.
Just to rub salt into the wounds, Son played on despite a fractured arm for Spurs and still made our defence look Sunday league!
I thought pot and kettle with Terry criticizing Chelsea defending against man utd Isn’t he our defensive coach who have now leaked 50 plus goals.
He should be concentrating on our defensive frailties
looking through the remaining fixtures, i can see us picking up points. but we have to play to our potential. cutting out the mistakes will be crucial too. these are the things we can control in our world. other results /injuries/ var and lady luck are out of our hands.
i was impressed with our attacking play against spuds, we really had a good old go at them. if only we took our chances in the first half, it could have been a totally different game had we.
samatta looks like a real good signing, hes in the box when we are crossing, he is making the near post runs which is a good sign for a goal poacher. his presence forced the spuds defender to og. he linked up well with grealish and even when we hit long to him he took in the ball or pressured the spuds man to hit the ball out or back.
it was always gonna be tough season for us, yes we lack quality at the back especially without mings. mcginn is also a massive absentee, we lack legs in midfield and a deep ball carrier. injuries have been cruel to us robbing us of heaton mings and mcginn at times. but we still are in their fighting and hopefully mcginn is back soon hungry and running fit to the end.
A fit McGinn will be a big boost but I don’t see us cutting down on mistakes or defending any better – nothing has changed from match day 1 to now. Smith’s philosophy of going ‘toe to toe’ with everyone in the PL is admirable but it doesnt work – leaves us exposed and teams will punish us as they have done time and time again.
Add in the usual bottlejob performances against the traditional top 6 it gives us very little margin for error in the other games.
Would love to see a way out but I think we’ll finish 19th on around 34 points ish.
my fingers are permanently crossed for mcginns return. i also admire smith philosophy getting at the opposition. but this tactic does come with major dangers as you said. but smith might have calculated that being more conservative would be worse. i reckon if we could cut out the mistakes that alone would reap more rewards.
i still think we will scrape 17 th but i am less confident than i was originally.
It is possible to get at the opposition and defend well, the two things are not mutually exclusive.
The fact is whatever is going on on the training ground isn’t working and while I think we are actually a better attacking side than we have been for years, we are also the worst defensively, it seems whoever is in charge of our defensive coaching is really not doing their job properly.
“it seems whoever is in charge of our defensive coaching is really not doing their job properly.”
Which is very, very worrying when it’s supposed to be John Terry, who’s surely being advised by our senior coach, who is Dean Smith?
Who also happened to be a defender when he played, yet wants to go all out attack whenever possible?
I really like Smith and the way he approaches the game, but I’m seeing a few contradictions in what I’ve just written????
Whichever way up you look at it we keep coming back to the quality of our CB’s and defensive mids or lack of it. Apart from Mings non of them are up to EPL standard.
Engels is just too slow (although tbf his stats re number of mistakes made are a lot better than the others and he did score from a corner 🙂 ); Hause can head a ball and that’s about it and Konsa lacks experience although may come good in time.
It seems to me that Guilbert and Targett are suited to wing back roles.
Then there is the defensive mids – primarily Nakamba (lacks experience) and Drinkwater (nothing more to say). Luiz is starting to look a decent player though.
All in all we show a lack of quality and / or experience in key positions.
They say you learn more from your mistakes so why aren’t we learning at an incredibly fast rate 🙂
“They say you learn more from your mistakes so why aren’t we learning at an incredibly fast rate ”
Exactly.
I don’t doubt the ability of the nucleus of the new signings, i think Guilbert, Targett, Luiz, Nakamba, Konsa and Samatta will come good in time, i think maybe Hause, Wesley, Trezeguet and El Ghazi aren’t really up to it and are nothing more than squad players. I’m on the fence with Engels.
The issue is obvious, a completely new team thrown in at the deep end, the defence in particular against Spurs looked like strangers. But like you said, why are we not learning from our mistakes? It seems to me that the coaching doesn’t seem good enough and that is a real concern.
If we do go down, it may not be a bad thing, provided we keep the core of the players we have, Mings, Mcginn and Grealish may leave, that in reality should bring in a hell of a lot of money, although we are known for selling to cheaply as we never play hardball with the buying club or the players themselves, but the others we should be able to hold on to, another season playing together would surely see them gel better and perhaps if we can go straight back up, we’d be better prepared for the Premier League next time round.
We would guest but the Championship is a lottery. I would venture to suggest that Leeds and West Brom (oops this hurts) were better teams than us last season and better equipped for the EPL whereas Norwich over performed big time. Sheffield have shown the benefit of building a very good team under an excellent manager over many years.
If we go down, there is no guarantee of a quick return.
Big game tonight where we need Citeh to right royally stuff West Spam. Hopefully they’ll vent their EUFA frustration out on them 🙂
*Uefa
Financially we need to stay in the premier league because like Hitch said, we aren’t guaranteed an immediate return. Last time we went down, we assumed we could bounce right back because of parachute payment and well, we are the mighty Villa after all. I like to think the current owners are here for the long run even if we go down, whereas last time we had chaos at board level. If we stay up we hold onto our best players (possibly even Grealish) but relegation would mean goodbye Jack, John and Tyrone, although I would hope combined we should expect £150m and nothing less!
We still have it in our own hands but I hope the likely mauling against Citeh in the final doesn’t finish us off. Maybe better to field a second string team to avoid injuries.
“Maybe better to field a second string team to avoid injuries.”
Good god, no, Holte!
We might get mauled, but this is a cup final, where you have to go all out, surely?
I’m sure Villa fans would be well angry if they went to Wembley, only to see we’ve conceded the game before the KO.
Plus there’s no way Smith will think like that anyway.
It seems Man City fans aren’t interested in the final, as anyone who has attended a home game this season is entitled to 3 tickets(!) whereas we could easily sell a few thousand more.
That’s a shame, imo.
In other extremely good news, John McGinn either trained today or starts tomorrow.
The boot is off and he’ll start light running.
Quick healer indeed!
Excellent McGinn news – the sooner he’s back the better.
What do people think of 3at the back with Konsa in front then Luis and hourihane then grealish with sammata up top 33211 against Southampton with 2wing backs or 3412 with elghasi and sammata and grealish in behind.
Hourihane?
If we could bring him on like an American football player to take the free kicks, I’d use him.
Otherwise, he’s utter gash, imo.
Patricularly when we need to dig in.
Personally I am rather fond of gash.
Ahem.
🙂
Hourihane is probably like Drinkwater where he is totally ineffective when not in possession but does offer set pieces that no one else in our squad does. Probably better as a 30 minute substitute when we need a goal.
Mings fit for Saturday, McGinn on grass at the weekend and Davis back in training Monday; the Scottish Cafu retires and we need something from the Southampton game.
UTV
Puslow’s comment about the academy;
“We’re seeing 17, 18 year-olds playing in the under-23 team. That is the acid test of an academy programme. Frankly, and I’m going to be brutal, 22 year-olds playing in an under-23 team means your system isn’t working. It means your system is failing because 22-year-old footballers on a payroll at Aston Villa need to be in the first team”
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-mitch-clark-christian-17780840
Interesting and I think he’s right.
If they’re not in the main squad, they’re probably not going to cut it and should go, imo.
Can’t argue with that but …. what does it say about O’Hare, Green et al?
Not convinced by Green but could see O’Hare coming good. Needs to build up like Grealish a bit but bags of ability. Purslow is right though. The problem is when players are maybe good enough, but transfer policy and the pressure to get results stop the manager from trying them out. 10 mins here and there, or a run out in a totally changed team in early rounds of the League Cup probably doesn’t tell us much.
VERY interesting comments from Gabby on Remi Garde. I know the players are the ones who get the results, but if this is how they were being managed, it’s no wonder we went down. Terrible terrible day the day we were bought by Randy Lerner – an awful businessman.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-agbonlahor-remi-garde-17785282
I was just reading that.
Sounds like Garde was trying to be professional at a time when it was rumoured that much of the squad (led by Gabby, remember) were getting out of hand.
I’m not sure you’re getting an unbiased view from the player, myself.
I’m sure you’re right – but that’s some very specific accusations and not at all what we would have needed as a team (even if players were getting out of hand). Don’t get me wrong – I loved Gabby of the younger years but deeply disappointed by him as we got relegated as a born and bred Villan didn’t do enough for us, but that’s the first time I’ve heard anything about exactly what was going on inside the camp at the time.
I also seem to remember there was some incident with Sherwood that got physical with one of the players?
Seems though, whatever the actual truth, the dressing room was not a good place to be.it’s hardly surprising therefore that (now proved to be more than decent players) just didn’t perform.
It’s interesting that (whatever the truth) Garde even failed to get the best out of some talented French players in the squad.
It suggests that the problems emanated from the top – the club was broken and it’s still trying to recover.
The way in which the owners and people like Purslow behave over the next few months will be critical to the future of this great institution.
UTV
I can’t even guess how good or bad Garde was because he was completely undermined by those above him.
He probably told Gabby (by many accounts the biggest troublemaker) he was finished at the Villa and then had to do a U-turn when Lerner wouldn’t back him with spending money.
His days were numbered then and it’s no wonder he just wanted his pay-off.
No wonder no-one performed. Nobody gave a stuff and that’s terrible management from those at the top.
I don’t remember any details about Sherwood, but it does ring a bell.
Hitch, Green is part of the first team.
But yes, point taken about O’Hare, although he’s still only 21.
You’d think if he keeps having a good season, he’ll be promoted to the first team.
But not deemed good enough to play for the first team (Green that is) when we crying out for a quick wide player. Then there’s RHM …..
It just seems we are always saying ….. but he’s only ….. then suddenly find the player is 24 and still not cutting it!
The one thing we may be able to agree on is that we have an academy that, on results, has under performed for years. When we do produce a good player – what do we do – sell him cheap!
I can’t argue with that either.
But maybe that’s part of the strategy?
Loan them out, hope they do well and hopefully sell at better money than in the past.
The likes of O’Hare, Green, Hepburn Murphy and Davis could prove their worth next season in the championship. If we do survive I’m not so sure any of them will get the chance to play. The lad we signed from Barcelona will likely be playing for someone like Cheltenham in 4-5 years. Clubs like Villa who are scraping premier league survival or pushing for promotion to championship, cannot afford the time for youngsters to come good in the first team. Funny however that Wesley and Drinkwater can play week in week out with the hope they eventually shine! Double standards comes to mind.
Agree with that Holte, because they might have a chance at Champ level, but wouldn’t be good enough at Prem level as it stands.
It’s all about experience and you have to have something really special to be a young kid in the Prem.
I suppose if you sign a player for £22m or are paying them £100k per week (or both) then you have to play them irrespective ….. such is the definition of modern professional football!
Pretty sad really.
Forgot about Doyle Hayes. Another promising U23 but now 21 so over the hill.
Not necessarily over the hill, but Purslow does have a point.
Being sat in the U-23’s for too long will mean you’re stagnating.
Which is pointless and means you should go.
Harsh, perhaps but pragmatic.
You move them out and let another kid have a bash.
Some clubs have ditched their U23’s to focus on U18’s and below only. I thought Villa might go down the same route at one point.
I’m not sure that’s a solution, because it just makes the step up harder.
That said, if you’re exceptionally good, you make it.
And it does save on the cost of quite a few players just under the required level.
Even with our comparatively low Prem wages, I’ll bet many of them are on £10k a week.
I am interested to see how the new direction impacts on the development and establishment of home grown talent.
I’d never heard of Carney Chukwuemeka before Purslow’s comments – clearly Villa view him as having excellent potential.
Also the purchase of Barry ( ironically we purchased another Barry a few years ago as a youth player). Is this the start of a quality production line.
Personally I buy into Sir Alex Ferguson’s strategy of developing own players (class 92) and then built one or two outstanding players. Just imagine if we got to the stage where majority of team home produced and then we buy a couple of players for £100m rather than buying a new team for that, as we have currently had to do.
Is this the start of our “from small acorns”?