It’s well and truly “wheels have fallen off” now, isn’t it?
I listened to the first half on WM while driving home and then the second half on AVTV.
AVTV weren’t so critical, as you’d expect, but WM were pretty scathing and basically said we were awful.
The Mail and various other online articles back this up.
Suffice to say, it wasn’t good.
We made six changes and I doubt anyone would really have argued much against them before the game.
Yes, some players were played out of position, but I think this was more about Dean Smith getting a look at who could step up.
And it proved disappointing all round, from what I heard. Indeed, the only player who carried himself well was John McGinn, who sounded like the only player that cared.
The most disappointing part for me (apart from Kalinic seemingly dropping a clanger so early) was Callum O’Hare.
I’ve wanted to see him get a chance, but WM didn’t pull any punches in hinting that he was a boy playing a man’s game, with the way he was muscled off the ball so easily.
The boos from the fans when he was substituted suggest he should have stayed on, but I suspect the reality is that he was probably having a shocker. Certainly, from what I was hearing, either he didn’t have a clue what the manager expected of him or Smith simply wasn’t getting his message across properly.
Either way, I’d suggest it was the better solution to hook him rather than let him have a whole game being ineffective.
Also disappointing is the fact that absolutely no one stepped up.
Hogan missed chances and Lansbury tried, but it was all huff and puff with absolutely no quality to be found in the side.
After a great start under Dean Smith, we’ve moved onto a very, very poor run of results and any hopes of promotion seem to be going out of the window rapidly.
If Abraham does actually go, you have to wonder where the goals will come from, as I hinted recently.
I suspect this will be a massive eye-opener for the manager and given that I really don’t think he’ll have much money to spend in this window, I also suspect he’ll be very worried.
Interesting, albeit concerning times.
It seems the squad needs quite a bit of a overhaul, but Smith won’t be able to do much.
We all knew that the “feelgood” factor was too good to last, didn’t we?
Normal service resumed, it seems.
Can Smith pull out any cheap gems?
Tell the truth I’ve seen it all now, Hitch got it right in saying manager syndrome, we are not improving what we have seen is a different system in the game looking better but not, I’m tell you now that team going nowhere believe me its not, you can come out with we need this we need that if the team doesn’t play to win then give it up.I’ll say it again one man on that pitch wanted to win and you all know who. Give me 10 more like him I’d be happy.
Didn’t see the match as I was at the pantomime. I’ll avoid making the obvious comparison with the game. We looked a bit shambolic on the highlights.
I suspect the situation hasn’t changed that much from where we were before this game. Grealish coming back will be important, but if Abraham goes we will probably still struggle. We still need more energy at DM.
Wheels coming off indeed
He’s behind you or in this case too late he’s past you LOL
ohare sub i heard the boos and i cant understand why they booed because he was off the pace thou he did show good touches he was never fully in the game always on the outskirts. in fact when we made the changes we did look far better. but not enough to mount any serous comebacks
It sounds like it was a good job we weren’t playing a physical side.
I’m sad for him that he didn’t have a blinder, but it just seems to confirm that the kids ain’t up to it, imo.
Especially when he’s supposed to be one of our best.
I agree with you Nath, we need to get all of our kids out on loan.
i agree with you too ,they will only improve playing on loan. ohare if he dropped down levels. got game time he will learn more in a week than he will in a season under 23s. green took a step down and he is in round 4 he scored for Portsmouth. he is only making sub appearances but the competing at that level scoring and proving yourself against fellow pros will only improve him
hard to judge ohare he has the touches, but hes physically lacking and hes not good enough to counter than at present.
What’s the problem? We can concentrate on the league now, can’t we? 🙂
Seriously though I hope that DS has told the team that he’s not interested in cups because if they were really trying today then we’re in trouble. We’ll see in the next game against Wigan.
Whatever happens we’ll need to stick with DS and not lose patience, it usually takes at least one to two full seasons to turn a team around so it may not happen for us straight away.
BTW lets give the new goalie some time before we start on him. I always remember Man Ure fans’ scathing remarks about De Gea in his first season and he didn’t turn out too bad.
According to BBC – Abraham is expected to sign on loan with Wolves next week subject to FIFA clearing him to play for his third team in the same season,
With Abraham gone, Grealish and Tuanzebe injured until February / March and Smith probably limited with signings I honestly don’t see us being good enough to make the play offs.
Pat’s comments suggest he feels the same although I’m not trying to put words in his mouth.
We’re blowing it rapidly Hitch and I don’t think any of us expected this.
I don’t know, but would guess we’re rapidly approaching Bruce-type form/performance.
And that isn’t good enough.
I think everyone knew it wasn’t going to be easy, but under-performing Bruce will not be acceptable.
I worry about where we’re going.
Yes, the footy is miles better, but the way we’re conceding is a massive concern.
Smith needs to turn it round rapidly.
Fortunately, we have a couple of “easy” games coming up.
Hmmmmm.
I watched the game and we played awful for the most part. Hutton playing central defense is madness to me. Why not bring in a real center half from the u23s? Hogan is a lost cause in my opinion. He’s slow and can’t hold up the ball. I wish Smith would finally let him go.
Nevertheless, I’m not too concerned because:
1) We need to focus on the league
2) The new keeper got his hands dirty.
3) Hogan has to go and he demonstrated exactly why, today.
4) Keenan Davis is back and looks sharp. I’d pick him any day over Hogan.
UTV
Hogan’s getting dog’s abuse today, it seems.
I can’t comment, as i’ve only seen him play bit parts.
I’d only say that it’s interesting that Smith doesn’t seem to have given him much chance, today apart.
Maybe that says a lot?
his game relies on service and not just hopeful balls, but intricate passes through balls. he plays behind the defence and not with his back to goal outside the box or in his own half.
today he saw nothing but one tasty ball from adomah it was very accurate ball right pace and hogan was on the ball and for the goalie to pull off a fine save he would have score from him one and only sight of goal. today he simply struggled as did the villa midfield struggled to create.
He’s in trouble then.
Our biggest “positive” is in nearly getting round the back, but not quite.
And crossing the ball far too hard.
Piss-taking apart, it seems we played far too wide and left nothing in the middle again, just as I complained about last game (?).
And Smith pulled Hourihane further back, closer to Whelan, while pushing O’Hare further forward?
Which must surely have compounded the problem, in making us weaker in the middle???
We need a couple of McGinns.
our biggest concern will be tammy leaving. cause with us unable to create chances for hogan like his old brentford did under smith.we are just left with kodjia.
DM is also a massive concern. without axel tuanzebe nobody comes out with the ball to start off attacks from deep. hourihane pushed further forwards means no ball player is back there. we just have whelen and i like the bloke but hes not a ball player not one you liked to step out and play. also in midfield without grealish nobody carries the ball much,mcginn can do this, but for one run where he drove through 4 or 5 swans mid, we struggled to pass it or run at them.
today we lost the midfield badger never once did we control the middle. we huff and puffed and struggled to pass the ball. obviously swans had something to say on that, they were magnificence they surrounded villa players espically the better ones smothered them and stopped us from getting anything started.
Agreed Nath – now we will see if Smith is just all clever talk or whether he’s capable of changing the style of play to suit a new striker whether that be Kodjia, Hogan or Davies (although imho Davies needs someone playing off him as he holds the ball up so well).
I agree that we need to change things around; move players on and bring new players in – our owners need to back their choice in Smith FFP allowing. Unfortunately January is not the time to do it so I only expect some modest tinkling.
I’m sticking with my forecast of no promotion this season but that doesn’t mean that I think the season’s over – the team has to keep on believing and trying – something the players failed to do yesterday!
Let’s not get too despondent yet. Yes today was a day to forget but at least the owners might be more convinced that we need extra reinforcements now. In an ideal world some of the players we already have would be sold too. If only we could move on Whelan, Jedinak, Taylor and maybe after today Hogan. I’ve already set my mind on Championship football next season. We just have to be in a better position for the start, with no reliance on loan players. Also Grealish will probably be sold in the summer, so who can we get in to do what he does? Also why keep U23s when productivity is practically zero. Keep the U18s and ship out on loan the most talented.
That’s the thing Holte.
And what makes Grealish priceless to us.
There’s no one to replace him, at any money.
He runs, gets fouled and falls over for the club, simple.
And Nath, we’ll never make it because of no midfield, how many times are we going over this problem, since Grealish we haven’t won a game out right, why the hell doesn’t our club sort it out, its not rocket science ,we are not going nowhere full stop.a creative player is a must, we dont have one because he’s injured.
Badger, Bill, I think the biggest concern must be Grealish going in the summer. He signed a new contract but I’m guessing that he has a clause in it that he can leave for a premier league club if we aren’t promoted, which is looking very likely.
From Birmingham Live.
The Villa boss blasted his under-par team for failing to deliver a display in front of a disgruntled Villa Park who voiced concerns for the first time during his reign.
There were boos at half-time, full-time and when Smith replaced youngster Callum O’Hare with Jonathan Kodjia early in the second half.
Speaking after the game, the boss revealed how he tried to rev up his side with a rousing half-time team talk that would subsequently fall on deaf ears.
And he called on his players to show the kind of commitment never-say-die midfielder, John McGinn, regularly shows in times ahead.
Bill, the last thing we need is for the players to become scared of playing at Villa Park, like they were a couple of seasons ago. I know fans pay good money but we won’t win every game. The fans would get more from the team by way of supporting or not saying anything. Also booing Smiths substitutes is pointless unless they want a new manager every season.
Blimey Bill, that sounds a bit desperate on Smith’s part!
Where’s the ‘we showed them clips of the first half’ team talk gone?
I am a bit worried about our over reliance on particular players. It’s more than likely that Tammy will be gone shortly and Jack could follow at the end of the season. It’s not healthy for any team to rely so much on one player. Even Barcelona without Messi have still Suarez, Busquets, Raketic, Ter Stegen etc
We need creativity and goals but that needs to come from the team as a whole and how they interact. That’s what takes time. I’ve resigned myself to us being in the Championship next season and it may not be a bad thing. I’d prefer that we do a Wolves and not a Fulham when we go back up.
BTW just watched Green score a good goal for Pompey against Norwich in the cup. I’m not sure what he’s doing there instead of being at VP.
Personally, I don’t give a damn about the FA Cup. For me, and I am probably showing my age now, the romance went out of the world’s oldest Football Cup competition when they moved the third round draw from about 5.30 pm on the radio, on the Saturday, just after all second round games had been played. And by that, I mean all second round games, not one the night before, four on Sunday and one on Monday to satisfy the fat cats at Sky and BT. Oh how I long to hear the names of Tooting and Mitcham drawn alongside Harlow, Hillingdon Borough, Horwich Railway Miners Institute etc. Anyway, despite the bigger clubs playing the rest of their squad in the earlier rounds, we still end up with two of them at Wembley in May. Our priority is the Championship and getting out of the bloody thing. I understand that Dean Smith is not keen to loan players. Probably very wise as we are possibly about to lose our main source of goals just at the make or break point of the season. However, if Abraham had been a flop, at least we would not be committed to keeping him. This is where Smith has to be canny in the permanent sale market. You only have to look at McCormack, Lansbury, Tshibola and Richards as examples of excess unwanted baggage we are still carrying and paying far too much for. Whilst I am still upbeat about Smith, a little bit of me does worry about some of his tactics. Putting Kodjia on the wing from the start against QPR for instance instead of either Bolasie or El Ghazi. The next few games are crucial as we would really be expected to capitalise on who we are playing. One thing is for sure, it ain’t going to be dull.
villa can cope without grealish, apart from yesterday day we have created and scored goals in all the games he has missed. we got two goals against stoke leeds qpr and one in swansea and preston games. we won without him against swansea away. jack is hardly prolific with last season 3 goals and 6 assists and only 2 goals sofar this season and 4 assists. so we can manage without him and if we cant then we are simply not good enough as a team. now a player we cant do without is tammy has 16 goals in 20 games and 1 assist that is more like a player we will struggle to lose if not replaced,
we need to stop panicking and support smith, fans wanted him to play the youth and he did that with ohare yesterday and he is booed for withdrawing the player after he was ineffective and we were 2 nil down, reason he gave was he knows how the crowd can get 2 nil down he was protecting the kid from abuse or a hammering.
so yesterday we missed Yannick and Tammy, defence is constantly changing along with goalies. we got beat and i expect us to bounce back from that one defeat next game 3 NIL whoever it is
Words just words Nath, you don’t build a team on what might and might not, you might have excuse has to why, that team yesterday was bad and you or anyone say it wasn’t. I’m behind DS, the thing is the team as on yesterday’s showing it didn’t show up .you seen McGinn he fought and fought why didn’t the rest . We need a mid central one that’s a captain and sprays the ball about.
seriously what is the problem bill, my opinion is maybe different so iam not allowed to express it ??? what have i said that has your knickers in a twist.
i said yesterday we were rubbish so that cant be the problem. is it cause i think they can turn it around ??? i am sorry for being positive.. still friends???
don’t judge manager or players until the results dry up and shit hits the fan, only then will you see them in the real lights. from getting battered against swans they will crumble into submission or they will bounce back.
That’s just it Nath, you have to dissect ,you bang on and on as if The club knows nothing ,you make a statement that we can move on without Grealish, we miss him and you don’t agree . He was the heart of the team and you should know that by now, It’s time to realize Nath we are not all daft far from it. And yes I don’t hold any malice if its said knicker in a twist I don’t wear them. Dean Smith does have my support, its his players I have issue with one man playing his legs off game after game and other don’t read the game. Im sure he’ll get it right but not on that performance yesterday.
don’t know what to say only yesterday game is now history and the next game is important and iam sure the manager will voice your opinions and concerns and he will get a response next game. which is all i am trying to say dont get too worried over one game,
the post by SIDCOWANSLOVECHILD is exactly how i feel about villa, brilliant post and thats why i come here to read stuff like that,
maybe its the grealish statement. that is also my opinion. we havent missed as much as most think. in the area of creation or goals for. but we have missed in other areas, like team player/member see i know he does much more than score goals or assists. he offers option for the man on the ball. very unselfishly he does stuff like this drops deeper when we struggle to build attacks. he also draws many opposition players and pulls them out of their shapes.
but hes injured and with teams sports its not about individuals its always about the teams. we have to be able to cover his absence and all the other clubs lose influential players and they adapt to this.
grealish injury was also bad timing with the silly season fixture pile up. our midfield has played alot of games and covered a lot of ground and not much rotating. smith has refreshed up the wide boys and defenders are changing all the time. but the middle three are probably knackard, hourihane was rested and i bet he wanted to rest mcginn too. but with no other mid fielders ready to step in he had no choice to play him
Like Mark, for me the FA Cup has lost its magic – but, in some ways so has football generally.
We were never going to win the Cup and a cup run would just have increased pressure on players and staff whilst probably not (in the overall scheme of things) generating that much additional income so – dare I suggest – neither are the owners overly concerned.
I suspect Smith is privately relieved although – not that he can admit it – and no manager likes to lose! The manner of the loss is the real concern.
Although I’m not changing my view on promotion, there is no excuse for not putting every effort into trying to achieve it – there are no distractions.
UTV
In a weird kind of way yesterday’s FA Cup was the first time I didn’t have any sense of anticipation. It was almost like an international break in that it was inconvenient. Wrong I know but that’s the way the club seems to feel about it over the last few years. One consolation is an extra week for Grealish to get fit and also players like Lansbury to push for a first team place. Nath is right in that it is ultimately a team game and injuries affect all clubs. The problem is apart from McGinn and Abraham the squad has failed to deal with Grealish being out. Having Whelan as replacement was unfortunate but Bjarnasson and Lansbury should improve things with Hourihane and McGinn too. A big miss though will be Abraham assuming he’s gone now. Who can replace his goals? Kodja hasn’t really played centrally this season so maybe if Bolasie, Adomah and El Ghazi can improve their consistency we might be okay. I would love DS to bring in Maupay but I think that would be unlikely. Whilst I’m expecting mostly defensive recruits DS might still surprise us.
my sentiments exactly regarding midfield both lansbury and Bjarnasson returning will help midfield. needs freshening up and needs a competitive edge for your shirt. also smith will need to sign a dm this window. that must be very high on the list to do. we are missing axel ball distribution at the back. we will start to go long or our better attackers will start to drop too deep for the ball
This is typical of Villa fans. You can’t write off players because of one bad game, whether it’s O’hare or the new keeper.
Some strange things have happened at this club over the last few years which will take a while to unwind, such as buying and loaning out/in god knows how many keepers, letting some of our best defenders out on loan (Elphick and De Laet) as well as promising youngsters Clark and Suliman with no replacements and over spending and underperformance such as Richards, McCormack etc
If we are going to play Dean Smith football we need to play out from the back and the only defenders we have capable of that are Bree, Tuanzebe and Taylor (not that I’m his biggest fan) although others should be coachable.
A ball playing deep midfielder would be good. I’m a bit concerned that some the defenders we are linked with such as Hause don’t seem to be ball players even if they have other qualities.
Most importantly, we need to decide what type of team we are. We can’t replace Abraham with Hogan and play the same way, ie Tammy great with crosses in to the box while Hogan needs through balls to run on to.
On the plus side we have plenty of quality in the squad which just! needs to be made effective although I am concerned that our style of play under Smith improved immediately but now appears to have regressed again.
However, we really need to hang in there and not be despondent too quickly as, frankly we have little alternative. Sack Smith??????!!!!
Pluses, proper owners with real money now, proper structure, modern manager with progressive attitude, great facilities, ground and support.
Negatives, under achievement and hangers on costing us a fortune and some bad luck, all of which can/will change over time
Up the Villa
While Smith might need defenders, a mid-fielder and a striker (assuming Tammy’s gone) the most important thing he needs is time. Our team has been at the bottom of a very deep and very dark hole and it’s still climbing out of it.
We need to be patient and, barring relegation, not get on the manager’s back. From his record I feel that he’s the man to make our club great again but he will probably need more than one season to get the players he needs and to get us up and running.
We should all be grateful for where we are now considering the dire straits we were in at the beginning of the season.
UTV
Please don’t shout at me but aren’t all these manager sentiments a rerun of Bruce’s early days.
Just saying!
Hitch,at the time those comments were right. Any manager needs time, Bruce was given time and proved to be a failure. We can only hope that Smith does better but, if we don’t give him the time he needs, we are guaranteeing failure.
BTW just noted that Sheff Utd just went out at home to a non-league club. Like us I suspect that they prefer to ‘concentrate on the league’.
True Pat on both counts – it will be interesting to see how long the goodwill lasts if Smith struggles to improve results. Just to be clear I’m not anti Smith but he does need to demonstrate that he can maintain the early form the team achieved when he came in.
A number of clubs beaten by lower league sides; Fulham for one and I suspect all would prefer to concentrate on the league where the ‘real’ money is – as per my earlier post regarding our early exit.
Sadly – specially for us oldens – the FA Cup is not what it used to be in terms of status
If that’s the case lads why come out with remarks like, the players realize how important the FA cup means t the fans. as I’ve said up till now it Bruce Mark two.but I’ll give it a Little while longer with hope that we have found a manager in Dean Smith.
Bill if we’re going to be fair we need to give Smith at least two transfer windows and a little bit longer after that to get the players working together.
If he achieves anything before that then it that will be a bonus.