Okay, I’ll be honest.
I’m bored and all the so called news is just transfer conjecture.
But I haven’t posted for a while and thought I should, if only to let you know I’m still alive.
There was a comment I read today, somewhere, by a Leeds fan who suggested that Kalvin Phillips moving to the Villa would be a step back.
Now that is of course, a laughable statement, given that Leeds have been in the Championship for god knows how long and have won miles less than us in their history.
But I’ll give them credit for having ruled the roost in the early 70’s and having an excellent fanbase.
As a slight aside, I have it on pretty good authority, that even at BMH they were called “dirty Leeds” quite recently.
Er no, I’d better not post that, had I? Oh dear, I have; never mind.
And then I saw a BBC news article, where WBA have enroled Slaven Bilic as their latest manager and it showed a shot of their ground. Which had me thinking “that’s a small stadium compared to Villa Park, they’re not in the same league”.
To my mind Albion are a big club, so how does that compare to us?
They have loads of history, but have done nothing for ages and even their fanbase is probably outdone by Wolves, who have also had their golden moments.
Wolves are on a roll, having firmly established their place in the Premier league and I also see them as a big club, with loads of history and a good fanbase too.
But they’ve also done little during my personal experience.
Of course, I’m biased, but to my mind, we’re by far the biggest club in the Midlands.
Which got me thinking about how other supporters perceive our club.
Here’s a list of clubs in the Premier league that I think are not as big as the Villa;
Norwich, Sheffield Utd, Brighton, Southampton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace, West ham, Leicester and Watford and Wolves.
The keen eyed amongst you might have realised that I was working from the bottom of the Prem table and have left Newcastle out.
They’re hard to rate, as although their fanbase is massive and admittedly bigger than ours, they’ve done well, but not as good as us over the years.
In my lifetime, we’re on a par with Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City. Their recent history has obliterated ours though.
Which only leaves Spurs and Everton.
Spurs are way above us, as it stands now, especially as they have the London factor, that will pull a few thousand fans in as a tourist day out to their nice new big stadium.
Everton is what we should be aiming for.
But we’re the new boys, just back in the Prem.
So whatever I think doesn’t really matter.
Many Prem clubs will see us as the newcomers who haven’t had the money they’ve had over the last few seasons.
And we’ll be expected to struggle, no matter how big we think we are.
One thing I do know is that if we survive this season, we’ll have to seriously look at upgrading the stadium, even if it’s only to keep the Wolves from the door.
We can’t have the Old Gold seriously competing with us, can we?
Makes a change from “we’re going to sign……” at least, I hope.
Where do you see us?
Interesting post, Badger!
Let’s take it from the top, down:
City – light years ahead now (league of their own now)
Liverpool – always have and probably always will be bigger than us
Chelsea – interesting comments recently from Dean Saunders and Cascarino. Basically, the last 25 years have see us eating Chelsea’s dust – but that shows what can be done with investment and ambition…
Spurs – how and when did they become bigger than us? London, recent history (Pochetino), and new stadium aside, are they really?
Arsenal – similar to Spurs really. Only Wenger’s ‘first half’ saw them pull away from us. Shows what can be done with an innovative, visionary manager..
Utd – see Liverpool
Leicester – not bigger
Wolves – not bigger
Everton – in my biased opinion, not bigger
Other fans will perceive us on the ‘here and now, which is fair enough. But if Smith is the coach we hope he is, and VP can be extended, in a few years, we should be considered by all as what I believe we are already: the 6th or 7th biggest club in the country, which, fascinatingly, is where we were when MON downed tools. He basically got us to our max and realised there was no more to be done. So the question is, can we get back to 6th or 7th, and if we can, can we then do the unprecedented, and take the club to the next level? Dr Xia’s bullish rhetoric when he bought the club alluded to that. I hope our more restrained, new owners have similar ideas. Time will tell…
UTV
A superb reply BFR.
I’ve tried to look at something different to the transfer crap.
It galls me that Arse and Spurs have moved so far ahead.
The replies here will really interest me and if there’s any non Villa fan’s views, I’d love to hear them too.
Cheers, Badger!
As it stands we’re a middling Prem club at best but, if things work out, we’re potentially a top six club or even higher (he says touching wood). Just over ten years ago Man City were literally a middle of the table club and now look at them.
It will take time but the first thing we need to do is survive for a couple of seasons while we start building the team. MON ran up against the limits of Lerner’s ambitions, we have to hope that our new owners are aiming a bit higher.
Interesting post Badger; agree it’s good to get away from the transfer rubbish bring spouted.
Money – the root of all evil and the reason why a number of Premier Clubs are now seen as ‘Big’ and I suppose they are – taken purely in the context of here and now.
To me, historically, from my experience and pre the influence of money, (whether or not you loathe them) are Manure, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton and (unbiased of course) you would have to add Villa. I also think the bar codes deserve a shout in this list. I’m with you Badger, in that Everton have always been the club to aspire to – never ever played outside the top division – some record.
But, we now have to look at Villa in the context of new mega wealthy owners. Only time will tell whether their money can propel us into the modern day big clubs list – and if they do will some of the romance die?
PS – I remember when Chelsea were a music hall joke – not sure that much has changed really 🙂
Everybody will have their own answer. Most will be radically skewed towards the present, but that is too narrow a view. A question – theoretical in the cases of Arsenal and Everton – that you might ask yourself is “What attendances the club would get in the Championship?”.
Answering that makes me opt for Sunderland Leeds and Newcastle as big clubs, but Chelsea and Man City are not. Add to the small clubs Badger’s list with a question mark about Wolves. Everton and Spurs scrape into the big clubs but perhaps Wolves just fail.
Interesting take OLL. Of course the real question is – what is the definition of a ‘big club’.
Is it their historical achievements, their world wide fan base, their financial might or something else entirely?
Most modern day polls for ‘best this or that’ whether sport or some other genre concentrate almost wholly on the modern era (within living memory of 20 something year olds) so OLL is correct; whatever definition you chose to use the answer will be skewed towards the present.
So – are Villa a big club – of course they bl***y well are 🙂
UTV
OLL, attendances when a club is suffering is a great point. Chelsea didn’t show it, but I thought Man City’s crowds held up pretty well. It could be my poor memory though.
Arsenal would always get a decent crowd.
Spurs probably the same.
I thought Wolves held up pretty well too.
One of the best lines I ever heard was the Doc saying “you could hang 11 Villa shirts on a clothesline” etc….
As for “small clubs”, I don’t think that’s quite fair.
They’re still some of the biggest clubs in the world, but I know what you’re saying.
It just goes to show how big we are, when we’re still rated above half the Prem.
And our potential is massive, if we can only unlock it.
The money O’Neil spent was horrendous and unsustainable. A lot of it on players he didn’t play.
Taylor, Atkinson, little and Gregory all finished higher than 6th (O’Neils best finish)
Steve, agreed MON spent money on crap, but to my mind it was about improving the squad, as he saw it.
All managers make mistakes (look at Rafa), but it was more about where we were aiming for, for me.
I’ve absolutely no doubt Dean Smith will make big mistakes too, but hopefully our current owners will stick with him and not bottle it like Lerner did.
Going for the top six these days is a massive money game.
I’ve only just realised that the Villa have capped ST sales at 30,000.
Just goes to show, offer decent footy and the fans will turn out, no problem.
I wonder how many they could have sold?
That family deal for 2 adults and two kids free is excellent at £740 and I think my two grandkids have taken advantage of that.
Sky reporting Bristol City have turned down a £12m bid from Villa for Webster!
Yes, I’ve just seen that too Hitch.
Priced at £30 mill, which is a joke, but just shows they don’t want to sell.
Prices generally are ridiculous and I think we’re going to have to go further down our list of wants to get players in.
Also noticed late last night that Alan Nixon reckons we’ve agreed a price for Kalvin Phillips, but nothing’s been said about it elsewhere.
Agree with you Badger – prices being asked are just stupid. This for a player with limited experience and none in the Prem. Think we need to look abroad and forget over priced and over hyped English players. Sad state of affairs – all of it driven by Sky!
I see Elmo has scored for Egypt in the Africa Cup of Nations. Good for him!
Isn’t he captain as well?
Hmm, no news and tbh I was expecting more signings by now,
I’m guessing we’re not going to roll over and pay the daft prices wanted.
Which might mean we have to wait quite a while until clubs realise they could really do with the money on offer if they want to strengthen.
If Villa think they’re best waiting, I’m fine with that.
There’s talk in one of the papers that we might spend upto £120 million!
No one knows who we are going to sign. Take Moreas for example, totally out of the blue. The only slightly obvious one is Mings although the transfer fee could still put a stop to that. Not many names we are linked with offer much excitement. Fact is we are going to have to achieve what the huge majority of play off promoted teams fail to do, which is retain a premier league place in 2020-21!
This has me thinking about Badgers post regarding where we sit in relation to other teams. Currently we are 20th and have to prove ourselves again. Norwich and Sheffield United were better than us last season so we have to improve. Smiths transfer window is going to be crucial in achieving that. If we stay up then we need to play catch up quickly if we are to get anywhere near being a top six team again. We potentially have big spending owners but we can’t complete with current top six. Also our stadium needs to be upgraded to a minimum 50,000, and ideally 60,000 because Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle and West Ham are already there and Chelsea have plans to do so. Even Wolves are pushing for a 40,000+ in the near future. Our previous history of silverware is becoming a distant memory for fans younger than 30! It’s time for our club to begin the process of creating a new successful era so we aren’t living in the past anymore.
Holte, the post was designed to make us think, as I believe there’s a bit of a disconnect between where Villa fans hope we’ll be and where we actually are.
Call it downplaying expectations, if you like.
As you rightly say, we are playing catch up and are at a big disadvantage.
We’ll be doing well to just stay up this season, as history has shown.
That said, I’ve previously stated that I believe we have a better chance of survival than Sheff or Norwich because of our resources at hand (even bearing in mind FFP).
If we’d had Dean Smith all season, I think we’d possibly have won the league, so maybe that moves us up a couple of places?
I think if we can survive this season, we’ll be ok for 20-21, no problem.
And then we’ll need to expand the stadium.
Fwiw, I think 60,000 is what’s neded, although that’s a big ask and I don’t know how you’d achieve it (5000 in the Witton lane and 5000 in the North stand, maybe 1000 in the corners, but then what?).
Play the right sort of footy and the crowds will come, imo.
But we’re getting ahead of ourselves 🙂
If we are going to spend that £120 mill, does that put us in the Fulham class, where everyone said they destroyed a good team by buying too many outsiders?
Very good points, Holte. The longer we go without success, the more distant it becomes, the less people remember, the less important it becomes.
What Ian Holloway said about the Villa a few years back has always stuck in my mind. I hope the new regime can bury that kind of thinking once and for all. The sooner, the better! For the record, we don’t seem to be “half-arsed” any more. Let’s home that leads to us becoming “famous” once again…
Apparently we’ve signed Harry McKirdy, when tha reality is we’ve let him go.
(Sigh)
https://sportslens.com/report-aston-villa-could-be-willing-to-pay-25m-for-leeds-midfielder-kalvin-phillips/268868/
It’s exactly the sort of crap that winds me up.
Utter garbage, eh Badger? I think it’s a sign that we should all stop reading every BS ‘article’ that’s posted every 2 minutes about the club and their alleged transfer targets!
Amen, BFR
That’s been my point for a while.
I’m not swallowing it.
There’s nowt else on telly, so I’m half watching England-Norway women.
Seems like Prem against a Sunday league side to me.
And Norway are supposed to be a strong side?
Hmm.
I suspect the investment is showing out.
Wolves will do a Bournemouth, have a couple of good seasons punching above their weight, and back down. In that I honestly mean no disrespect to the Old Gold. And I wouldn’t want to upset Zep’s Robert Plant, one of the nicest men in rock.
Did I ever tell you I once had a wee wee in a urinal in Ronnie Scott’s next to Robert Plant?
And why haven’t we signed Mings yet??!!!
Hah, nice one BB 🙂
Mings has only just got off holiday, but I think we’ll get him, as I do believe he wants to come to us.
Wheels in wheels etc…..
While you are taking the p*** Bum Bum – can I point out that Bournemouth haven’t gone down yet! Like you I suspect it is only a matter of time with that tiny stadium, but I would be happy if Villa do as well in their first couple of seasons back up, and play as attractive football as Eddie’s team while doing so.
As it happens, I think Smith is a similar sort of manager so I expect we will.
Who’s taking the piss?
I think it was just a reference to your taking a leak next to Robert Plant 🙂
Nothing to get wound up about.
Apparently, Webster’s stats are better than Mings’…him and Mings might be the dream partnership and he sounds like a more than adequate replacement for Axel. Having said that, I’m sure the money it would take to get Webster would get Axel, so why not go back for him? – he’s younger and already has a link with the club and the team, so surely a better fit?
Again, it’s all about the deal, imo.
I suspect it’s all about add-ons, myself.
Villa Park sold to our owners 56.7 million.
It’s like waiting for the apocryphal number 9 bus …… but don’t worry when one comes along there will be at least three.
Keep the faith UTV
So Forest have sacked MON, apparently for falling out with too many players.
I reckon Roy Keane’s probably to blame, hence him going earlier.
No sympathy here Badger – I see him as outdated and arrogant – yesterday’s man.
Villa Park sold for £56.7m to NSWE Stadiums Ltd on 31st May (last day of our 2018/19 accounts), thus wiping off our losses and making us compliant with FFP (which you can only do once!) Gibson can moan all he likes but if the club decide to sell the stadium and include it in their accounts then they are completely within their rights to do so. I admit, though, to having one small (very small) piece of sympathy – Derby sold their ground to one of their owners companies for a reported £80m – that seems way overvalued to me but, then again, it’s up to the buyer and seller to agree a price.
Happy Days!
Apologies Bill – didn’t clock your earlier post
See there is reported as being a lot of interest in Keiran Davis going out on loan this season. I like this kid and reckon he has a great future (if he can stay injury free). Think a year out on loan (as long as he plays regularly) is a sensible move.
No worries Hitch it jumped into That position anyway. That sale can only be a good thing to our club . It’s put us on Parr with the other big clubs money wise.