Well, I don’t know how the protest went as I unwillingly took part in it myself, because I missed the first ten minutes of the game due to me being collared to look at something on the way out of work.
From what I gather though, it was pretty ineffective, just as I thought it would be.
I’ll leave you to enlighten me on that, but I just hope it wasn’t so bad that it made us fans on the whole, look daft.
As for the important stuff, what to say?
Things looked like I pretty much expected they’d go before the game, in the first half.
Liverpool looked the total opposite of us, in that when they break forward, their attackers are all over the place and offer plenty of options, whereas we just don’t.
That said, I thought we sat back far too much and allowed them to come at us, which didn’t allow us to put any pressure on them. For me, that was a mistake, as Liverpool do look susceptible at the back.
Which co-incidentally, is something I noticed about us today.
I’m no defensive tactician. Indeed I don’t profess to know much about tactics at all, but I just hate the way we were lining up in defence in the first half. Watch the goal and there were three defenders all chasing the same player.
Surely that can’t be right?
We just looked totally out of shape at the back.
The long and short description of the first half is that we could easily have been 3 down, but only went in losing by a solitary Liverpool goal.
The second half started brighter, but not massively different from memory.
And then came the interesting part, where on the hour, Lambert took the utterly ineffective Cleverley and Westwood off to be replaced by Andi Weimann and our new signing, Carles Gil.
I see some complained that Delph stayed on, but for me it was a case of perm any two from three.
Gil’s introduction straight away massively raised the fan’s spirits and the difference was amazing, as the atmosphere and our play instantly improved, with Gil playing a great, actually threatening, “give and go” that stood out and immediately caught my eye. What a pleasant change that made.
It just goes to show, that if you give the fans something to hope for, they will strongly support the club and indeed get behind the players.
The worrying thing for me though, is that this was proof that the players are feeling the malaise that runs through the club just as strongly as we do. Even they’re hoping that Carles Gil can improve us.
And at first glance, it looks like he at least might.
The important part is that we truly put Liverpool under the cosh for a 15-20 minute period and probably could have had a couple of goals, if Benteke was in better form and we had a bit more luck.
Ricky Lambert ruined things though in getting a well taken second which took the wind out of our sails.
Yes, it’s a bad result, but not one that was unexpected really.
There are strong positives, in that Gil, (if it wasn’t a total fluke and I know it’s too early to really judge) looks a very good player who will give us options and put the likes of Cleverley and Richardson (who are far too average) under serious pressure.
And there was proof that if we can get at least another more attacking, wide player in, to give us and the players something to be encouraged about, we might still have something to cheer about this season.
I know we lost, but this was a more entertaining game today.
Man of the match?
Sanchez again, as I thought he broke up play brilliantly, even though he constantly sailed close to the wind with some of his tackles. He linked up very well with Hutton, who again was solid and often our most threatening player.
Hutton’s unlucky not to get the call, but there you go.
I’d even put Gil in with a shout, just for the impact he made.
I shouldn’t be happy and indeed I’m not, because we lost at home.
But after seeing Gil, I’m at least encouraged.
I remember Ellis saying that but surely Lerner would also have a clause to say that in certain trading circumstances he could appeal it. Would you really pay 62mil to have your hands tied. Or, Bill, you might just have hit the nail on the head as to why Villa has not been sold. Manchester supports two teams with combined gates of just under 120,000. Birmingham, same ish population manages 60,000. So the potential is there for an investor so why no sale?
Probably because the missing 60,000 in Birmingham support Manchester Utd that’s why!!
Council have always been a stumbling block to Villa Park, a curtain person has a dislike to Villa, they put walls up for any proposed changes, Villa for some reason is the councils second choice club. BWS I’m with you all the way on Lerner he should be hung drawn and qutted. The prick of a yank.
Alan Shearer slates Lerner for Villas decline calling the shit out.Ide love to slap that prick Lerner for how he’s turned us over.
Alan Shearer yawn remind me again why he’s being paid millions to state the bleeding obvious.
Yes but it shows the media are against Lerner to giving him bad press.
I don’t think its the case being paid millions Oohah with Shearer, its obvious to all and sundry, so you cannot knock him , you’re right in saying Villa fans are sitting back and allowing a Yank to dominate us, I given up on today’s fans at Villa ,headless chickens spring to mind, you voice sanity on the issue on here so do I , but we still have some that don’t see the writing on the wall, 70s you had fans fighting for rights of our club, today its like ho well never mind.
Times,rules & laws change ultimately Lerner is untouchable and we all “Today’s Villa supporters”know it & he knows it to that’s why he’s absent know where to be seen.He knows we know what he’s up to so he stays away gutless twat.Hes copping it now though from the press and media.All we have to do is call him out every game as loud as possible ie We don’t care about Lerner he don’t care about me………..Lerner out banners everywhere…make it a big deal every game see what happens that’s all we can do as far as we can go…utv
A lot of good points have been made this morning. I agree with the assessment that Lerner is a poor businessman. His father is the one in the family that made the fortune (out of MBNA credit cards) and Randy has tried and failed to be a successful sports franchise owner in 2 different versions of football in two continents (Cleveland Browns/Villa).
I also agree with the comments made querying whether Villa were ever properly for sale. I have a friend at a Merchant Bank (not the one Lerner chose) who says that bank did not try to market the club outside a small group of people known to Lerner. My friend says their are foreign investors looking to buy a Premiership club – partly for the Abramovich reason, the spotlight makes it more difficult for their enemies to touch them. And party to get their money out of Eurozone banks, but they cannot withstand the scrutiny involved if they transfer the cash to US.
Where did Bournemouth get the money? From a similar person to those still out there looking for a Prem club. They may not be the type of person Lerner wishes to trade with. Consider one of the few facts, a consortium offered with conditions £1 Billion to buy Spurs, a club who will have to shut their old stadium in order to construct the new one, ground-share for a season, and still face court action from a neighbour. So I refuse to believe Villa have been offered to anybody who has £200M and there were no takers.
Deadly sold Villa for c. £60m which, on reflection, was a very good price for Randy. I wonder whether there are covenants within the Sale & Purchase Agreement which originally led to the (relatively) low price but are also now making it more difficult for Lerner to sell? I have no sympathy for Lerner but it doesn’t help us as Villa fans and would also reinforce his poor business strategy.
I don’t know why Villa hasn’t sold but I doubt it’s because Lerner hasn’t tried to sell it. Everton and Newcastle haven’t sold either, and owners of both clubs want to exit. I don’t think there is anything in the covenants that would really stand in the way of a sale either. I’m not saying that because I have any knowledge there, just that rich people tend to get their own way on things like that.
Aside from laundering money or a vanity project, maybe the attraction isn’t there. To get into the Champions League you would need to displace City, Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. That is almost certainly going to take a huge sum. FFP will make that harder to do even if you have the readies.
If Lerner has had a billion dollars invested over the past couple of years he should have earned enough to cover his investment at Aston Villa. OK he had an expensive divorce (is there any other type?) but I find it hard to believe he can’t afford to take a bit of a hit here. I have to say it looks like he is trying to recoup some of his losses first. Like a few have said, that could be another in a long line of poor business decisions if we get relegated.
Why buy a football club in decline that’s going to cost multi millions just to have a chance of winning something not very attractive offer is it unless you’ve got spare money to splash out and burn
DSVilla, you make a good point. It wasn’t really difficult to invest in a Premier club when you could pretty well buy one of the four places. You were almost certain to keep it as well (unless you shot yourself in the foot like United) but now its like having a mini league within the premier with qualification as the prize. That might explain the lack of interest in Everton, Spurs and of course Villa. Liverpool have tried so already its any 4 from 5. No financial investor would take that risk and it will probably have to be someone who actually cares that buys Villa. As Originallondonlion says some good points today. Shame we have not got the answer to the no goals problem….yet
Villa hasn’t been sold becuiase we’re in Birmingham. No attraction to this city whatsoever. With investment into the City you’ll likely start seeing investment into business’.
The truth often hurts
Have you been to Liverpool recently? Manchester isn’t that great either.
DS In reality it’s probably a combination of all the various very good points made today. This is a really good debate although finding a solution evades us all. In truth we probably have to hope that RL invests more, Tom Fox knocks some business sense into him and Lambert rediscovers the all out football he played so successfully at Norwich with (and I think we forget this) no better squad than he has now. The difference – he’s trying to re invent a major club’s fortunes as against a club with little or no expectation (with all due respect to Norwich)
I suspect the expectation at Villa is a large part of the problem. I think that weighs heavily on Lambert’s shoulders. Maybe it did on Mcleish too. Thing is, playing a defensive game goes completely against what the fans are looking for. Lambert either needs to embrace that or get out.
I can’t see Lerner investing any substantial amount without some “success” ahead of that. I think there is very little sign of this happening.
As for Fox, who knows? Apart from the odd speech it’s impossible to see what he is doing. Let’s hope he has some positive effect.
Liverpool is a dump Manchester slightly better. A lot of it is because utd are there
man city owners have spent loads on city training grounds and schools and the surrounding area, man city will be the dominant force in manchester if they aren’t already.
Comparisons. Birmingham Liverpool Manchester.
My nephew a 19 year old Thai, came here to improve his English, and while with us decided to visit each of these cities for a few days. I made no comment before he set out and listened to what he had to say on his return. Liverpool impressed him most with its regeneration of the waterfront. Manchester he hadn’t a good word for, and in neither of these cities could he understand the locals until they repeated it. In Birmingham he could at least understand everyone perfectly, but he thought the city a bit run down, and thought more people on the streets seemed menacing.
I then let him make his own way to White Hart Lane, that quickly proved to him there are scary areas of London.
Good point OLL, I grew up in London and yes, there are scarier places but the point I’m making isn’t about scary, it’s about the City itself, London is untouchable in comparison to most cities in England. That’s why there is so much attraction for players to go to clubs like Palace, QPR etc etc, they shitty small clubs with shit grounds in horrible parts of the capital, but it’s the capital. Players fom foreign countries only know Manchester and London (and I’ll squeeze Liverpool in there as well because of the European dominance amongst us English clubs), wasn’t it Benteke himself who thought the Villa were a London club or something silly like that…
he thought it was arsenal, wot about unsworth wife, didn’t she think villa was near bolton lmao
you would think they would google it or check a map before signing away
Lerner has had his fingers burnt and wants out.
But i still believe we have a team that should at the very least under a decent manager be comfortable mid table.
Lambert out.
Guzan
hutton okore clark Cissoko
Bacuna Sanchez Delph
Gil
Weimann Benteke
seven of them players are lamberts players, 2 are home grown and other two cloned
Now would that team beat this one: Friedel / Bennett Dunne Cahill Bertrand / Young Maloney Bannan Downing / Bent Milner ?
Or would it depend who manages the exiles?
Villa looking at young french winger Thomas Toure he plays for Bordeaux is 21 and we have scouted him.This player certainly fits the mould utv
Who?
Talented young winger who can also play behind the striker, like Gil.
Rather we sign their manager though.
Also we have been linked with Lazio defender Michael Ciani utv
Who?
Wouldn’t mind him, prefer him to Huth. But again we’d probably need to get rid of Vlaar first.
big mistake selling cahill and milner, i bet lerner had his say on both or definitely on the milner one. OriginalLondonLion team would win.
no action on the transfer front it seems
Nath, I suspect different circumstances. Selling Cahill was a massive error by MON and all because (as I understand it) Cahill wanted some certainty over playing regular first team football. MON fell back on the Clough way of managing! Milner wanted out of the club anyway;no chance we could keep him when ManC came knocking.
it definitely was, also cahill was more than ready for villa, mon didn’t think so. gary megson was laughing his bollocks off
Nath – spot on mate. Never forget that goal against Blues.
mr hitchens that goal was one of the best, even better than the der hammers goal at the reebok in the dying minutes, classics
i just looked at the hammers goal at reebok on ytube doesn’t look as good as i remember, i swear i heard the ball rip into the net and the stadium atmosphere die. the cahill one was really good for a center back to react as he did,
O’Neil preferred Zat Knight instead of Cahill, says it all really.
Just read that Wolves want Jack Grealish on a months loan, might come about after the FA match this week. well if they don’t use him why not.
i think the loan will do he more good than cameo roles at villa, just my thoughts
Unless played on the right, will he get playing time when Sako comes back from the ACN? But it would be a good loan for him.
another record for lambert first time pool won 4 in a row at villa park 3 under lambert
Anyone watch Everton v West Bromich? I thought we were boring. A team that dominated possession and created nothing V a team that decided to sit back and defend for the entire game.
They also have the same problem up front. Lukaku’s movement, like Benteke’s, is non-existent. Very reliant on everyone else to create for him.
…and both sides gave the ball away time after time!
West Bromich definitely looked like an old Pulis side. Sad as he had Palace looking decent and West Bromich looking relatively decent before today and not parking the bus for 90 minutes. But they got the point. Everton look absolutely hopeless, largely because they have a big Belgian up front who looks disinterested in actually making the runs to break down a team necessary to score.
i watched that game andrew almost fell asleep, we are in shit, but if we can start scoring we will be safe JUST… MAYBE…SHOULDBE
According to a few facebook pages, Tom Fox talked to Steve Foggett and basically said 2 things we knew:
1. Lambert’s staying no matter what
2. There will be at least 1 more signing.
3 and not surprising being, shirt sales are 15m pound down this season.
Of course there’s always a chance that Lambert will decide that he’s taken enough stick, and leave of his own accord.
Two hopes Ardent.
This bloke knows he’s at the top of his ability, earnings-wise and will never chuck this job, imo.
I can’t say I blame him, as he knows he’s onto a winner from his POV.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if he got a rise when he signed the new contract.
Which says it all.
Badger – you’re probably right, but the MOTD cameras caught ‘that look’ on Lambert’s face when ‘pool scored their second.
I’d also been listening to the commentary on WM, and I think that Paul Franks mentioned it a couple of times; Lambert semmed to have that same haunted look about him that McLeish had in the second half of his season at VP.
There’s always a limit to the amount of anger/frustration/impotence that anyone will subject themselves to before deciding ‘stuff this for a game of soldiers – I don’t need it that badly’!
He’s gotten nowhere near enough stick… Let alone to make him want to leave. Hell he thought the protests were solely against Lerner. When there’s more than 2 minutes at the end of a game of a few people chanting you don’t know what you’re doing and we want Lambert sacked, and there’s truly many voices heard for a lot longer period of time than the few minutes at the end of each game. Maybe, and only maybe then will he understand it.
We’re only just past half-way in the season. The stick may only just have begun, but it isn’t likely to get better unless something really positive changes on the pitch.
Is he as mentally tough as McLeish?
Lose in the Cup and we’ll see…
I realize we’re just past half-way, but Villa fans have gone rather easy on him. Lets face it McLeish didn’t stand a chance at Villa and fans made it more than well known. Why haven’t they already, after 2 1/2 years, made it well known they don’t want him, when you can basically go anywhere and you’ll find a majority of fans hating him?
From the daily mail so grain of salt should be taken, and most likely not true:
“Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner, after trying to offload the club, is said to be energised about taking the team forward having brought in former Arsenal commercial director Tom Fox as CEO.
Nevertheless, there is speculation billionaire Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, the richest owner in the NFL whose Seattle Seahawks have reached back-to-back Superbowls, could be interested in buying Villa.
Allen, who was in talks to buy Southampton in 2007, part-owns MLS side Seattle Sounders. Villa are sceptical about any bid but a source involved with Allen’s investment vehicle Vulcan said: ‘This is Americans talking to Americans.’”
He’s worth just over $17 billion which if he does buy us, I know everyone will be oh so happy, but that means nothing with FFP around.
Don’t know which part to take with the bigger bucket-full of salt:
Randy ‘energised about taking the team forward’?
-or-
A man worth $17billion, who’s not Russian, Chinese or Arab, being interested in taking over the club?
Only thing is he was interested in Southampton in 07, and owns Seattle Sounders so he does like Football.
He owns Seattle Seahawks who just made it to the NFL Superbowl, he is also one of the owners of Seattle Sounders MLS team, which could be very interesting. would allow him to skirt the FFP rules the way Man City are… This story could have more meat to it than we think.
Hope so though no one ekse is picking if up. I reckon it will just fade into nothing.
Birmingham Mail picked it up and they’re probably the only ones that might have any worth to actually knowing anything about Villa.
Hope so but why is lamberk buying players if true
I can’t seem to find much on this kid Toure, a couple of vids on you tube but nothing extensive. It’s another risk, following our standard pattern of this current regime but it’s certainly a risk worth taking if we can get him in. Can’t be any worse than what we have.
Looking like Lambert wants a 4-2-3-1 formation with 3 AM.Thom Toure is a winger AM,Gil AM also can play RM,Sinclair would be another
Just watched the highlights on MOTD and although they never give a good reflection of a match, we looked (imo) a little hard done not get something from the game.
Baker missed two absolute sitters and maybe Cleverly should have made more of his chance but what the f**k was Delph doing when he gave the ball away for their second?
Gil looked the business so it’s not all doom and gloom, bring on Bournemouth.
It is all doom and gloom because we lost and Bournemouth will beat us.
Bournemouth have scored 32 away from home so they aint no mugs and If he (as his is habit in cup competitions) fields a weakened side, that stands every chance.
Whichever side he puts out, it will be weakened!!!
please let this be true best news ever if true http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-gossip-microsoft-billionaire-8482194?
should be a good game then we put out a weakened team every game!!
Paul Allen Net worth $15.7 billion, that’ll do nicely thank you.
Just reading on Forbes he’s got a thing for history and that’s on thing AVFC aint short off.
BWS, his networth means nothing in FFP terms. Unless Fox finds a way to make Villa a ton of money.
Swansea look to be getting Naughton in from Spurs for 5mil. Would of been a good one for us, another missed.
Lambert out, Lerner out!
Not in a position to spend 5m on a backup fullback. Lowton’s just as good as Naughton is as well and doesn’t seem like moving so no need.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha hs. Oohah’ answer to all of Villa’s problems…throw money at it yet he can’t be bothered to go and spend his own by actually attending a game.
It’s the only way that we will ever get near to competing again. Sad but true im afraid
Thought you hated American owners?
not when they are worth $17 billion I dont lol
And what honestly makes you think it’ll be any different to someone worth 2-3 billion? News-flash… It won’t. FFP doesn’t change because we’re rich, and a businessman isn’t going to accept GIGANTIC fees of 30-40m just to spend a ton of money on us.
Dosnt matter ffp will not last much longer citys lawyers are running rings over fa. They still signed bony and Lampard. All you get is a fine for £40 m which will be challenged for years and by the time you have to pay it we will be in CL so won’t matter anyway.
Jesus you posted that the other day and then I posted then you can loose £105 million over 3 years!
That’s enough to make you at least competitive and get us out of this football purgatory.
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php
Get a decent manager like koeman or Benitez and for £50m they could get us a team finishing in top 8. After a couple of years we can then challenge for top 4 as we will be more attractive to sponsers etc
Ignoring the Allen rumour itself for a moment: Must admit that I’ve never studied the fine-print of FFP rules, but from a normal corporate/accounting POV, I’d have thought that an owner putting capital into a business via a share issue wouldn’t actually contravene any rules?
Of course when the FFP auditors look at costs vs revenues [later] the share issue only works to keep the balance sheet strong, and FFP then bites; but as an initial way of funding major one-off club ‘improvements’ – on and off the field – I’m guessing that a rich owner can still do that.
Anyone out there actually know the FFP rules?
Interesting point ardent
Thanks for the link BWS.
We’ve made losses of 51.8m and 42.6m so unless when the finances come out we’re now all of a sudden self-efficient. We’re still making enough losses it means nothing.
No problem mate. The video explains it and to my understanding you can make a $45 million loss as long as the owner puts in/up the equity (as you say- share issue) if the owner isn’t willing to put in the equity then this figure drops to $4 million (sound familiar?)
Three exclusions
(1) Players signed before 2010 (even if they extend their contract)
(2) Stadium development
(3) Youth devlopment
Over the last 2 years*…
Andrew they wouldn’t count as most of that loss was due to wages on players signed pre 2010 so they don’t count anyway.
Apparently I’m not up to date on my FFP rules either then. But then again we go into will a businessman who works for Microsoft really, really want to spend all that money and make a loss?
I always wondered why we voted against ffp. Now I get it. It’s because if lerner sells it limits his options if new owner is restricted in his spending
Every billionaire needs a hobby 🙂
Between his 3 American Sports teams, his huge contribution to Ebola, University of Washington, Microsoft, Aerospace, Real Estate, and the 100’s of other things Vulcan Inc does including producing videos/movies and the fact he’s now producing music because what else does he have to do… What’s another hobby.
Rubbish comment Andrew how many hobbies does Abrovich and city owners have. It’s a different challenge and spreading his wealth people with that amount of money have to keep moving money around.
And a higher profile, more cash generated, onward and upward. Gotta better than this race to the bottom we’ve been in for the past 4 seasons.
Andrew – as when you put the original link to Allen on here last night, I won’t believe it unless it happens.
I saw a news article on the BBC sports pages earlier, quoting Freddie Sheppard [ – he of ‘Newcastle whores’ infamy – ] as saying that no potential foreign owner wants to look at Newcastle because it’s not in London or Manchester. Too sadly true IMO.
Difference is is we have a foreign owner, who while people hate, has connections around America and my guess well further out than that. I’d say a bigger problem for Newcastle is Mike Ashley rather than where they are.
” Aston Villa are searching for a director of football operations as they continue to revamp the support networks around boss Paul Lambert.
Chief executive Tom Fox has created the role as part of his on-going plan to improve the major departments that surround the manager at Villa Park.
The club are also closing in on the appointments of a chief commercial officer and a new head of media while a massive overhaul of the academy and the scouting system is already underway.
Ideally Villa are aiming to fill the position by the summer to ensure the new man is settled in for the start of next season.”
Now tell me that no new foreign owner would be happy to have someone like Tom Fox running their club when they can basically sit back and enjoy themselves?
Between Yoann Copreaux being the head of business strategy to bringing in a Chief Commercial officer which the Birmingham Mail believes could be in within a few months. A director of football reportedly by the summer. And an overhaul of what is a dying academy along with a new scouting system.
“Unlike at other clubs the director of football role will not be heavily centred around identifying and purchasing players.
Villa feel that with new director of recruitment Paddy Reilly already doing a decent job at Bodymoor Heath there is little need to add another commanding head to that section.
Instead, Fox is thought to want someone who can look critically at areas such as sports medicine, data analysis and athletic performance to ensure the claret and blues are reaching their maximum potential.”
Only big problem is they claim that a search for an assistant manager isn’t a big concern. When it should be at the top of the list.
Maybe an assistant manager is on hold as if takeover happens we should get new management team
there is that but I wouldn’t expect a takeover till summer. He needs help now.
I’ll believe it when it happens,he seems a bit of a philanthropist well hopefully he thinks we’re a worthwhile cause.
With you on that Giddy, but I bet Oohah might buy a ticket and a shirt if true.
Again mate I’ll believe when it happens. 😀
Ps I bet his shirt with Davenports written on it is a bit worse for ware now so an upgrade wouldn’t go a miss.
I’d buy a paul Lambert photo and and have a wankfest over it if happens lol
I don’t think I’ve ever been more disturbed on this forum than right now.
Why
You’re talking about having a wankfest over Lambert… Why the hell would I not be?
As he got ragged trousered? (makes a change from Rag Arse Rovers).