I suspect the first half of my post will bore the pants off many of you, but it’s something I find interesting and I’d like thoughts on.
If you’re not interested, scroll down halfway and I do talk about the footy side of things, honest!
I’m sure we all know the story by now, but just in case, here’s the link;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36094976
I have to hold my hands up and say I don’t have a clue how things work in the hierarchies of big business (and that’s basically what the Villa is), but I find the suggestion of a mole within Villa Park a bit worrying.
Hence I find myself wondering who the said mole might be.
I might be wrong, but I’d expect that if a board member has something to say to another specific board member, the rest of the board would normally be CC’d in.
That part makes sense, as the board have to come to some sort of consensus and there’s no one board member who can make a sole decision; Randy Lerner apart, I’d suspect. Hence the board have to keep everyone “in the loop”.
At least that’s how it works where I work, at the (lower) level I’m at.
So given that the mails Bernstein and King exchanged were critical of Lerner, it also makes sense that they must have been a private conversation between the two of them.
Which begs the question of who else would have been able to see them?
And I can’t see that anyone would, unless they hacked Bernstein’s or King’s computer.
Of course, I’m working on the assumption here that the mails weren’t sent from within Villa Park (which would rule out any Network administrators) and both directors wouldn’t be so naive as to walk away from their screens leaving them unlocked, for anyone to have a peek at (would they?).
I’m also working on the assumption that Paddy Riley, the main suspect, who isn’t listed as a member of the board, or even strangely enough, an AV official at all wouldn’t have been party to these conversations.
And anyway, he’s known to be close to Lerner, as is General Krulak, another one I’d discount.
Which only leaves Doug Ellis.
Would he have been kept in the loop when it came to critical comments about Lerner?
Possibly, but I doubt Merv would have included him, as he surely knows what he’s like.
So what am I saying?
The truth is, I don’t know.
But then I find myself wondering how it seems the BBC first broke this story.
Since when have they ever been the first to know anything about the Villa, especially when it hasn’t come from Pat Murphy?
I’m guessing the whole story was leaked by a new source.
I think there’s much more to this than first meets the eye, is my conclusion.
So onto the actual footy side of things then and Gabby has been suspended again and we’ve called the PFA in to mediate. The good news is that it seems the PFA might have a lot of sympathy for the club.
But they’re never going to side against the player, because that’s not what they’re about.
Dead simple this one, to me.
Get rid and I don’t care how it happens. Sack him and let him take the club to a tribunal, if we have too.
And it breaks my heart to say it, as someone who defended him for ages after he was played out on the wings.
But there are far too many accounts that suggest he’s the worst influence in the club and he has to go. At any cost.
And then there’s Okore, who’s apparently moaned at Eric Black about not getting a game and has been demoted to the development squad.
Which has caused some outrage amongst the fans, having read on here and other sites.
Maybe rightly so, as I do actually like the player.
He’s young and has room to improve, after all.
But while I don’t rate Black at all, you can’t tell me that he’d see any player moaning about wanting to play as something bad enough to warrant demoting him. Especially when it seems half of the favoured eleven don’t seem to give a toss.
No, again there has to be more to this than meets the eye.
And my guess is that Okore’s another troublemaker, who thinks he’s better than the club and another we need to get rid of.
Black is starting to move up in my estimation, if my thinking is correct and he’s actually laying down the law.
In other news, David Moyes now looks a reasonable bet to be the next Celtic manager.
While I think he was probably genuinely interested in the Villa job, who can blame him for not being interested now?
Which also makes me wonder, which manager of any decent standing would want to come to us at all?
There’s another protest planned for Saturday’s game.
I’m afraid I don’t care about these anymore, as the previous ones have been totally uncoordinated and missing, dare I say, a leader as in “Fear”.
Pretty much like the club really, I suppose.
And finally, we won the Barclays grounds team of the year award.
Congratulations to Paul Mytton and the team and I’m sure we’d all agree that they do a sterling job in making the VP pitch consistently one of the finest footy surfaces in the world.
We do have one thing to be proud of lately, after all!
Comments
115 responses to “Directors resigned after someone leaked their mails; so who’s the leak? Okore and other stuff”
The thing is, why is now the right time to buy or sell?
My opinion says Lerner was holding out for stupid money while we were in the Prem, which meant he didn’t really want to sell at all.
He must have now massacred the price, because we aren’t in the Prem anymore. And it seems, if you believe the BS, that buyers are queueing up.
Which all suggests that we were only ever a plaything to him; something he could boast about.
Good riddance to him, imo.
But there are provisos.
I now suspect Lerner will sell to anyone with the right amount of cash and that’s scary.
The worst thing that could happen now is what Oohah has often hinted at; we get some consortium, that hasn’t got a pot to piss in and is just looking to make money.
That said, I don’t think we’re ripe pickings for some venture type outfit.
There is far too much money to be written off in high wages, crap assets, imo.
I’m praying for any owner who’s so minted, he can throw dozens of millions at us.
But, trust me, it isn’t going to happen.
We’re the Villa and we don’t get lucky.
Well ok, maybe Peter Withe’s shin, but that apart …….
just reading yesterday events unfold now, from your posts, i hope this happens. a consortium will try to run the club proper and have football ppl involved. its not rocket science. if you run your business well, you improve the value for your business. we would love a trillionaire, but right now i would settle for just having the club run by proper,by fit & proper business men. finally fook off lerner thanxs for nothing VTID
p/s did i mention good riddance randy
If Leicester can do it , so can we, remember we have an owner that knows nothing in football , ruined both sporting clubs , one in yankie land and over here, I’ll go for anyone that’s in it for sport and not as a toy, but I’ll stress again , not a Yank , if it is, I’ll not buy a season ticket because it will happen all over again.
Bill, I would agree except if Ellison is part funding a consortium of British, Villa supporting business men that would do for me. Difference is Ellison is a sports junky who is a winner and actually knows how to run a business. Lerner is a loser with no abilities at all.
FFP rules, which I don’t understand other than they favour the rich and powerful (no change there then) will limit any cash injection from an owner but tbh I can live with that as long as Lerner has gone (and takes Krulak, Riley, Flabby and all his other lapdogs with him).
Hitch, I don’t know much of this American businessman, whether he’s alone in this sale or not, my interests are its done for sport and not run like Lerner did to change our cultures in our sport. It can only be good that we get rid of that twit of a Yank that ruined my team and club.
Google him Bill; he’s completely different to Lerner and amen to the back of Lerner.
Not sure you should let Lerner’s antics put you off Americans. After all Liverpool was taken over by yanks and they’re not doing too bad. They managed to get someone of Klopp’s stature as manager and I think they’ll be contenders next year. I’d settle for one tenth of that right now.
Just depends on the yank I think.
I agree Pat57, they are not all bad, I should know I married a ‘yank’ and she is ok (just)…. Ellison is on a whole new playing field to Lerner, not just with wealth but also sporting success…… I would be overjoyed if he was part of a new owning consortium..
But I am a Villa fan and used to disappointment, so I do not expect it to materialise.
Lads I know I’m sounding anti Yank but the experiences my lad has in business goes far beyond reason, two years ago he visited on invitations to 3 factories, in doing so got to know the work force, they was so depressed in their jobs and frightened with the pressures of sacks if work wasn’t done and not played overtime to do it, it unturned me to know and i see that in Lerner, we sent money over to the main lads feeling Sorry for them. Hitch just got in will Google him , hope he’s what your saying for us.
Played,, or paid will do. Bloody tablet.
I know what you mean about Yanks and business. My brother worked for a Yank company – he ran Europe successfully and was highly thought of in the sector. Then they sent a Yank over who thought they knew it all – I’ll leave you to determine the outcome!
As I understood it the FFP rules apply to the top division in each country, not the lower divisions. It would be impossible to calculate it in some countries where top teams have nursery clubs in the second tier. In any case since Manchester City are allowed to continue playing in the EPL and CL with the most blatant dumping-in of owners cash regardless of rules – FFP cannot be more than a model.
I still won’t believe the Ellison connection until I see him at VP, but he would be a good backer to have though if the team gets updated as often as Java we might never play the same 11 twice.
I believe the Championship has its own version, a few clubs have had transfer embargos, but QPR and Leicester seemed to be able to get away with large over spends. Any large fine we might have to pay would only be a fraction of the extra revenue we’d get through promotion.
you have to demonstrate that all monies you spend are generated by the club, ie ticket sales, tv money, rename ground, sponsorship, no more hand outs from wealthy chairmen, didnt qpr have transfer embargo? plus randy lerner was one of three chairmen to vote against FFP
Ok Hitch , hes got a few Bob, he’s had a few women as well, no ok give him the benefit of doubt, the man has sport in his CV, I’ll go with that. Let’s hope.
More on Ellison here –
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-larry-ellison-quite-11224982
I would love to allow myself to believe the Ellison rumours, we couldn’t be that lucky, even though we’ve earned it.
Am I right in thinking the FFP punishments are a European ban and a sizeable fine? If by chance we did get someone with deep pockets, it’s not totally inconceivable that we could significantly overspend, factor in the fine, and a European ban wouldn’t be an issue for us for a while.
Even if they don’t have a lot of money, as long as they’re ambitious, have good judgement and either know or employee people who now about successful football, I’ll be very happy. Could this nightmare really be close to being over? As they say, it’s the hope that kills you.
Problem is Holtender, I believe it also includes transfer embargoes.
If we had serious money, and we were wiling to take the punishments, we could plan to buy enough players in the summer, then happily take the embargo over the winter window. It wouldn’t be ideal, but it could work for us.
Hitch am I right in thinking that the sale of the club also includes about 80 acres of land around the stadium? Didn’t Arsenal finance their new stadium through selling flats on their land? That revenue stream would be counted towards FFP wouldn’t it? Also how would paying off players who’ve committed gross misconduct play into it?
Sorry mate don’t know the answer to that question. I think Villa used to own land but not sure whether that’s still the case.
Just read Lerner’s statement. No wonder we’re up sh*t creek without a paddle.
it was a very odd statement the twat came out with i wonder why he has come to Birmingham today lads
Is he in Birmingham? Not sure he would need to be here to complete a sale.
it said on SSN that he was in Birmingham probably more bullshit
probably come to sort out flabbys new five year contract
Randy, why does one want to hold on and try to slide through, when one should’ve pulled ones head out of ones arse and taken responsibility to do something about it!
I’m so glad that you’re romantically nourished when we’ve been watching something that we deeply cherish rot away and leave us so hungry for even a glimmer of hope. Appreciate you getting in touch though, best of luck in your new adventures, please never buy another sports team, it doesn’t seem to be your thing.
He is in Birmingham today Hitchens the mind boggles
Thanks Muzz – with his business acumen he’ll probably p*ss off all the potential buyers!
Does he have a bodyguard with him?
An apology – too little, too late…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36112388
Read it Bum bum, two face apology me thinks, hes sat in America knowing the score and didn’t come over to help, now he’s sorry.
From Richard Conway
BBC Radio 5 live sports news correspondent
The Randy Lerner statement:
‘I knew things were bad.
I did nothing about it.
Remember Ashley Young?
I really love club.
I want to sell it.
Love, Randy’
Nuff said.
Pat Murphy on Lerner’s statement
‘HIs vacuous statement confirms why he’s not done a news conference since May ’10 or any radio/tv interviews. Gobbledegook. He would be laughed at.
And if a late winner at Everton by Ashley Young is one of Lerner’s highlights in a decade at Villa, that’s a damning indictment of his tenure’
Nuff said.
I see Eric Black’s given a somewhat different twist to the meeting with Okore. If Black’s version is correct then Okore can do one as well.
Isn’t okore in breach of his contract??? Refusing to play or is this another case of ‘ player power ‘???hopefully he’s one of many fucked out the door it makes my blood boil.
Giddy, it seems to me that players contracts only work one way – in favour of the player! Hope the new owners take no prisoners!
See what I did there – assumed the stories of a sale are true – Villa fan clutching at straws springs to mind! 🙂
any news on the sale of our club ?????
okore is another bad apple. he is being disrespectful to his fellow players and the temp manager. we have anarchy in the PARK, no leadership this sort of stuff happens. no wonder lerner hasn’t spoke very often, hopefully this wasn’t apology but a good bye cos he can stuff the apology where the sun doesn’t shine.
Please God tell me we are not paying Okore’s wages if he is refusing to be on the bench! How did we get so many w*nkers in the same team!!
Specially selected, or trained at BMH by Gabby?
The whole of the playing staff have been weak in my mind, you can now see why the first team was never with the second team , they kept apart. As for Lerner and his apologies, he can stick it up his? You know where.all this reminds me of WBA in the 70s-80s , they never bothered to turn up for training and only bothered to turn up for a match. Why won’t our players play? Why can we not stop their wages? We have a holiday camp at Villa Park. sack the B astards I say. Roll on a new footballing team.
Did bernstein and king jump ship as they think this consurtiom has got no money, and was all wrong for villa, told the w@#k yank who basically told them to you no what off. Its my club and ill do with it wot i want.
Hi Fezza – welcome to the ‘madhouse’ 🙂
Don’t think that’s the reason they jumped ship but who really knows. More likely Lerner did his usual and refused to financially support people who actually knew what they were doing. Lerner seems happier listening to his lapdogs Riley, Flabby et al.
1st ever post so apologies if wording wrong.
Welcome fezza we all fuck up with our grammar mate feel at home.
Why apologise for something you planned, when it works out? Randy Lerner set out a plan in the close season. which could only have one result. That has been achieved with four games to go.
At the start he had a new manager who had conjured an improved performance by the team, enough to get them to the cup final. But it was a team who scraped past relegation. With two good players going and the TV millions coming if we could hang on one more season, the need was for proven EPL players. Old possibly, they would be cheaper – they only needed to keep us up for one year. That is what Sherwood wanted coming in – but he also wanted rid of Gabby and the other Wembley Woefuls.
Instead Lerner landed the club with a shirt salesman in charge of Paddy Riley, a man with a plan to follow the proven bad ideas of Newcastle and field French League players with no EPL nous, and without consulting the manager. The dross remained to give a bad example to the foreign rookies. Rliey did not even fill the holes at GK RB and RW.
We had been standing on the hinges of the trap-door, nothing in reserve, and we take a big guess. Just to make sure we fell through it – we get another manager who achieves even less and we don’t allow him any transfers.
That plan worked Randy, don’t apologise, just tell shake hands on the sale.
Best post read for a long time
how can you get dislikes for telling the truth on lerner
Mr Hollis has gone quiet since Bernstein and King left.
Is he still there ?
What more can he say Steve. As far as we know he’s now concentrating on trying to achieve a beneficial sale of the club. I reckon Hollis has realised that there is no future with Lerner in charge.
I’ll go further – following the resignations of B &K, I believe the only reason Hollis has not resigned is because he believes he can achieve a sale of the club which Lerner ( without him) is incapable of doing. Hollis will consider that achieving a sale which will enable the reforms he was planning to be put in place will be justification of him taking the role of chairman.
I don’t think Lerner realised that when he put Hollis in as chairman he was taking on someone who would not be bullied or coerced into fawning at his feet.
I firmly believe that Hollis represents the best hope we have – without him I really do fear for the future – and I freely admit I was originally sceptical about his appointment.
I think Hollis was brought in with the sole intention to get the club ready to sell. In Lerner’s ideal world that would have been as a Premier League club. The relegation has just made it even more imperative. Hollis has been bullied. The people he brought in to put the club on the right footing were forced out. He has just kept his mouth shut and carried on trying to sell the club.
He is either on a big wedge to get the deal done or just wants to get out without losing face.
Just my take on it.
I have been reading a lot of the rumors and something that keeps cropping up at the back of my mind is the King and Bernstein resignations. Could they be behind the the consortium interested in buying the club? Would they be able to sit on the board and also be interested in buying the club?
Yes as a management buy out – as in Tata steel and Port Talbot.
They could be, but they are both men with a reputation for honesty. If the real reason for their resignation was a possible conflict of interest, they would have made that clear in their letters – which instead hint at their frustration with the owner.
Could they have approached Ellison for backing behind Lerners back and the conflict of interest came when Lerner found out having already started talking to Ellison as a potential sole buyer?
No it’s not that. Some of the paper talk is that 3 interested buyers have been allowed to do due diligence. That’s a nonsense. What will happen is that Lerner (and him alone) will select a preferred buyer. He will then give them a period of exclusivity (that means he can’t negotiate with anyone else until that is complete). If the buyer is happy they then proceed on the terms they agreed or slightly changed terms by agreement between the two parties.
Due diligence is expensive and nobody will do that without exclusivity. There is no chance that King and Bernstein are involved at this point.
Apart from the general positive of a change of owner, the best bit as that Lerner, in his weird statement, still looks like he may attempt to put us in decent hands rather than any chancer.
Sorry DS but have to disagree. I have been involved with buying and selling companies and it’s not unusual for more than one interested party to undertake due diligence through the use of a ‘data room’ established by the seller.
H60 is right; you can have several interested parties all doing their own DD seperately but at the same time – the ‘non-disclosure’ agreements each sign prevent them from talking to each other, and they all receive the same information from the seller. It often happens this way when administrators try sell a company as a going-concern…
However, my guess is that Bernstein and King probably aren’t directly involved in any of the bids either – they would be bound by confidentiality agreements [signed or simply implied by virtue of their roles with the club] which would largely preclude them from discussing anything that they learned while in office with any party doing DD; and I’d expect both of them to be far too professional to even give the appearance of breaking those. That wouldn’t prevent them from joining any winning bidder after a sale was agreed, if they were asked, but at this time they’re probably ‘out’ of any sort of discussions.
OK guys I bow to your wider experience. I have bought a few companies myself, and sold some that I owned. In every case there were several interested parties but always one was given exclusivity based on the highest or best offer. It was always insisted on as DD is expensive so why pay for it if it sells to someone else. In most cases data rooms were made available in the first instance to all parties to give access to the same information in order to qualify a bid.
Administration is a different scenario, as it’s usually a race against time.
That’s fair comment DS and I guess we may actually be saying the same thing in that a certain amount of DD has to be undertaken (by the bidders) in order to make a qualifying bid but further due diligence is often undertaken under an exclusivity agreement once a bid has been accepted.
The actual statement from the club suggests your take on matters in so far as it said (if I recall correctly) that three bidders have been ‘given access to the companies books’. I think it’s the press that used the term due diligence.
Agree with you on administration.