Submitted by: Naughtius Maximus
There is often a clamour for the head of our chairman Randolph Learner I can’t say I’m in the pro learner camp but I’m certainly not in the anti-leaner camp and I’ll try and give my reasons why.
Learner took over villa in 2006 and since has invested in transfers alone over 100 million pounds i.e. gross profit/deficit puts him at over -£100 million in transfers. Learner and Villa lie 5th in the overall spends table of the last 5 years averaging 17.2 mil per season
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html
Just this year Learner waived 100 million owed to him by villa in interest.
He gave MON his full support during his reign spending a whopping 50 mil in 08/09 season when we failed yet again to make the CL finishing 6th for the 3rd season in succession and since that time Man city have broken in to the coveted CL four positions by buying their way in with 100’s of millions of pounds in an endless supply that only Chelsea and abramovic can hope to compete with so the goal posts have moved slightly since Learner embarked on his project at Villa.
There is only so long a club can go on loosing multi millions per season unless you’re owned by a billionaire to whom money means nothing.
The way I see it is that he has tried the spend, spend way and due to clubs like city and Chelsea player prices and wages have become ridiculous, average players are commanding ridiculous fees and wages and that is what we ended up with under the MON money era, a squad of average to decent players who just weren’t quite good enough but left us with a massive wage bill, a bill that can only be sustained by CL football.
So Learner has tried a new method and this is what we have now, trying to build a team based on what is known as the ‘Dortmund’ and ‘Ajax’ model, getting young players in a building a squad.
Now I’m not saying this will be a success, it’s as big a gamble as going the spend spend route and should the Lambert project fail (and I believe we will know by the end of this season whether Lambert stays or goes) then I do believe Learner will sell up if a buyer can be found.
‘Hallelujah!’ I hear people cry but remember for ever Arab oil billionaire and Russian football mad money bags there is a Carson Jung, just look across the road to Small Heath if you want to see how a club has been taken the piss out of, totally mismanaged and struggling to make any kind of attempt at a return to the prem and when you’ve finished looking there take another look not so far away to see what has happened to Wolves and Coventry to see he harsh realities of owners that don’t give a shit about the clubs they own. Because for me I can’t see how some people think Learner is happy to see Villa fail, that he is some monster gloating each time we lose a game at the very least he is a business man, of course he wants villa to be a success, he is also a business man who is so fond of football and in particular Aston Villa that he has bought the club and lost 100’s of millions of pounds trying to make it a success.
All I’m saying is I don’t buy the ‘learner don’t give a shit’ mantra, he’s tried one method and now he’s trying another and as I’ve said I feel if this way fails he will sell up but aside from being bought out by billionaires looking for a new play toy any new owner is a massive gamble, sometimes it is better the devil you know.
hmmm
“So Learner has tried a new method and this is what we have now, trying to build a team based on what is known as the ‘Dortmund’ and ‘Ajax’ model, getting young players in a building a squad.”
LERNER !!
and I would say it is more the Wigan model, but heck just believe the hype and spin if that makes you happy eh ?
Hype and spin from whom? Do you really believe Lerner wants to destroy the club? Do you really think people are happy to see their team not do well?
Good post Badger, it’s what I think too.
Fuck me where did you spring from lol
This is a decent post and I agree with most of it. My biggest gripe is he spent millions and it failed and I totally get the way we’re doing things now but when do you draw the line under cost-cutting? The fact is the bloke never comes out and says what his ambition for the club is (apart from when he first took over). The way I see it is we’ll buy cheap/young/hungry players who will improve with us, but then what? I’ll tell you…..we’ll do what we always do and sell them on to the sky 4/bigger teams. I’m grateful for what Lerner has done regarding the training ground, the stadium, the money he’s spent and the brand he’s making bigger but the ambition he shows where it matters most, on the pitch, has extinguished. At least come out and tell us where he sees us in 5 years time and what his plans are to get us there then maybe, just maybe, people’s views would completely change towards him. Not asking much is it?
Naughtius M, well explained post, But I still think that Learner is guilty of misbehavior to the British fans of Aston Villa, he is after all the owner and has a commitment to all of us to give us value for money, not only that he bought a club with history and when we get thrashed he has to own up to what’s gone wrong, That man is happy to live in the states and only visits when the fancy takes him, no sir , I’m pissed off knowing that Aston Villa no longer plays a part in fighting for honour, we need a manager that will fight for us, up till now had over he boarder people running us, I have given up on Lambert,and Learner. A sorry thing to say but let them proove me wrong.
Mate a very good point for discusion and as you know as a so-called negative have in the past have defended Lerner.But at the same time we have all seen what as happened to the noses Coventry & Wolves with their ownership.Yes Randy as spent a lot of money and so did Jack Hayward at Wolves but mainly in the infrastructure and not on the team thus forcing him to eventualy sell up.It may look great having a start of the art stadium and training facilities.But that does not make you a global brand thus in creasing the clubs revenue it;s what happens on the pitch that counts a sucessfull team will always encourage investment.Not however you have a fantastic stadium but only have third rate players playing in it.
agreed for most parts on the points and for the record I do think we are too far gone the ‘young’ and ‘hungry’ route by not investing in some decent experienced players to help them on it would seem a relatively small expense and help the philosophy I believe.
my major gripe with learner is that he rarely visits as far as I know which has to be a concern, if I or any of us were football chairmen theres no doubt we’d be there involved 24/7 why buy a club and have little to do with it although this is just presumed as none of us know the true extent of his day to day running of the club.
as for him speaking out a bit more I guess that would be nice but I rarely hear what other chairmen have to say publically about specifics regarding the direction of the club.
my other major gripe is the appointment of Mcleish, this was surely on very poor advice as anyone who has anything villa in their heart would surely just know an appointment of this nature should have been a none starter it was imo lacking in any respect or understanding of the nature what Villa as a club are about but as I say this must have been on very poor advice one would hope.
I believe if this project fails (and this season should be able to tell anything less than a comfortable mid table finish would imo be a failiure)then lambert and learner maybe should concede that its time to stand down.
I understand everyone’s frustrations, but I don’t understand why, when we are only a handful of games into the season, people are calling for Lerner and Lambert to leave.
We finished last season relatively strongly and while we haven’t been great so far this year, there’s enough potential there to suggest we will finish mid-table – which is all we can hope for this year.
I want to see Lambert given 5 years with us at least and unless we return to getting hammered week in, week out, that won’t change. The finances should start improving soon and we can re-assess transfer/wage budgets accordingly – at the moment however, I just can’t see an alternative to our spending patterns.
As for this nonsense about being a selling club – you sell ANY player for the right price, as there is nearly always at least one club that appeals more to the player. Look at Ronaldo and Utd. As far as I’m concerned, the strategy ought to be to make Villa THE place to go for the best young talent in Europe – where they’ll get regular games and make their international squads etc. At some point, there will be enough of them that we start to challenge for the top 4 again – and they will start to stick around longer. In the meantime, we invest the profits in the club. Seems like a good idea to me!
One last point – on experience – I really don’t get why we don’t have just one or two experienced players knocking round. I would have taken Barry back – but maybe that’s just me!!!
Correct Naughtius M, I live near Learners home, at the first few months of taking on Aston Villa the man was out making friends, the pub in the Village was always full when he visited it for a drink. He even sent an helicopter our to find property to buy from the air, he got his man to buy at money he could not refuse but had to vacate within days, my point is I thought at last somebody that going to put us back on track, boy was I wrong hes never over here now, has it streamed to him, just sits back and to me don’t give a dam. If I was to see him would have a few words to say.
As a big fan of Sevilla FC as well it is very interesting to see the comparisons of supporters. Sevilla are 13th with 5 points consisting of 1 win and 2 draws from six games. After selling 100m euro worth of players over the summer to rid club debt and spending no more than 7million on any one player. Sevilla were robbed against Barcelona. To be fair the Europa League campaign has been a success thus far, dominating all teams played.
VS
Aston Villa, currently sitting 13th with 6 points consisting on 2 wins and 3 loses from five games. After selling nobody other than unwanted players (except Bent in some fans minds) and bringing in young talent, and also however spending no more that 7 million on any one player. Villa were robbed against Chelsea.
Sevilla FC fans are still quite positive, and very few have even spoken of relegation or asked for Emery to be ‘OUT’ but of course are concerned by team performance. Aston Villa fans are being fat sooks and complaining like no other wanting everyone out, again.
My point is.. harden up.
I apologise for this being unrelated to the topic, which was a good post by the way.
And your point is based on Sevilla cost cutting for the same period of time as us?
Partly, My comparison is that both clubs are in similar situations, both clubs have had a bad run of managers and little stability in that department. Both clubs have had a fall from grace at similar times. The only reason Sevilla are in the Europa league this year is because a couple clubs ahead weren’t allowed to compete (one banned and one didn’t have a licence). Both clubs run on similar wage bills, Sevilla slightly less with around 50million euro a year. Both clubs have been cost cutting, selling their best players and buying cheaper talented players. And both clubs have had a poor start in their respective leagues.
Yet Sevilla fans still have optimism, most Aston Villa fans have lost it.
Them being robbed is questionable as replays showed Alves was being fouled and M’Bia should have been sent off but that’s not for a different argument, but that’s not a bad comparison team for team I guess. Although I’d say Sevilla’s team is better than Villa’s and they spent very, very well. However they sold Negredo and replaced him with Bacca for the Europa League and Gameiro for the league so replaced 2 for 1 and the two they bought are well known talents. They sold Kondogbia and brought in M’Bia and Iborra and they replaced Navas with Marin, have a fair few loans and some good youth bought. They, like say Villa or Spurs, can sell and still buy well. They’re not in a worse position despite teams buying their players for a lot of money. Much like Spurs did with Bale.
Don’t forget Barcelona’s winner was scored beyond injury time too. Either you did your research quite well or you pay attention to European football. Marin is however a one year loan and in no way a replacement for Navas. The players isn’t my point for comparison, you can have great players and have a really bad season. The clubs are in similar positions of current, managerial wise, wage bills, funds, and points and place in leagues. If anything Sevilla are currently in a worse position on most of those.
Clearly one group of supporters have faith in the club and one doesn’t.
Oh and Andrew, Muñiz Fernandez the referee of the Barca vs Sevilla game has been banned from refereeing for a few weeks due to the calls he made against Sevilla that game. So yes, we were robbed 😉
Uhm, isn’t he banned for his calls against Madrid as he did referee that game and lets face it, the Madrid game was absolutely horrific against Elche. And yes I pay attention to European Football, and refs are allowed to play on past the injury time he’s claimed. Now if he ended it before the time and Sevilla were on a break about to score or something, that would be a case.
The same referee is also to see the Referee Committee on this coming Tuesday for screwing Elche against Real Madrid. From January he will be no longer allowed to officiate Internationals and looks almost certain to be demoted to second division at seasons end. GOOD! Sick of teams like Barca and Real winning games solely on refereeing decisions. Same needs to happen to referees with Bias towards Man Utd Chelsea etc..
So the first ban is for as stated the Barca vs Sevilla game and from Spanish Radio for “inexplicably disallowing a goal by Cala” and “Allowing Alexis’ winning goal for Barcelona after the added time which was initially announced had already transpired.” He will be back to see the tribunal for the Madrid game.
While accepting that Lerner has spent money.in the past he allowed it to be wasted on players not worth the fees or their wages. We are still wasting money albeit on players for smaller fees and wages o who just are not good enough. Lerner has blown huge amounts on compensation to managers HE appointed the buck stops with him and him alone. Lerner is hell bent on
cutting costs at all costs. As for developing a team for the future we all know once a player attracts any interest from another club Lerner will sell. I believe he sees us as a development club buy cheap young players and sell them on for.profit. I have no confidence in Lerner and think he is the worst thing that has ever happened to Aston Villa FC
To be fair, as of last season Aston Villa still had the 7th highest wage bill in the league (yep well spent ay). Still lost 18millon across the year and were about 100million in debt. (Found this online, may not be 100% accurate) Costs have to be cut until everything is back in line, because if not, even if we somehow made Europe, Financial Fair Play may just come into play and kick us out. Of course at the end of this season our wage bill will come back in line, and hopefully the loss for the year will substantially decrease. Until then, don’t expect big money to be sent on quality players with high wages unless they are needed to keep us in the Premier League.
Ffp is bollocks can u honestly see them kicking out someone like utd if didn’t comply with rules. They wouldn’t have the bollocjs and find some excuse to keep them in. Teams like city easily get round this by getting their own company to sponser them. You’d think Lerner coukd get MBNA to sponser us for a 100 mill or so
I agree it is shit. But I could see them kicking Villa out. And agreed the big clubs from all respective leagues are exempt from any wrong doing, ever.
Ooh ah I don’t believe Lerner has any involvement with MBNA anymore. Why on earth would they sponsor us at any level, let alone £100m?
One more question for you. If you win £100m on the Euro lottery, how much would you give to Villa? Probably about the same as me.
If I won £100m on lottery I’d put £25m in if Lerner matched it with another £25 so £50m to spend. I’d obviously want a decent season ticket thrown in too of course 🙂
The truth is there has been p*ss poor decision making since Lerner took over. The list is endless:
O’neill given free reign on transfers…massive overspending on average British players. Surely someone at the club should have been sounding the alarm bells.
The appointments of Houllier…then McTosser…again horrendous decisions for different reasons. Then bringing in players such as Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton…
The appointment of Lambert was meant to appease the fans as he was ‘the first choice’ with the hope he could do things on a budget. In some ways he has succeeded but not anywhere near enough.
Overall, I think Lerner cares. He wants the club to do well…and initially he did invest heavily, but was poorly advised and the money was wasted. Now, its PLAN B. You cant blame him really…I just feel that its people at VP that are really to blame. PF in particular.
A little unfair on the manager and player bit, bet looked great for us and got into England team on the back of it……lambert just didnt fancy him, and with regard to houllier, I think if healthy would have improved us no end.
Can’t argue with tosser though lol
I’m content with Lerner, not chuffed, but hey it could be worse.
My mrs is a great cook but doesn’t look like Kelly brook….
I focus on the positives
Yep same as my wife but she can’t cook either never mind when the light is of there all the same
“The truth is there has been p*ss poor decision making since Lerner took over. The list is endless:
O’neill given free reign on transfers…massive overspending on average British players. Surely someone at the club should have been sounding the alarm bells.
The appointments of Houllier…then McTosser…again horrendous decisions for different reasons. Then bringing in players such as Ireland, Bent, Given, Hutton…”
————————
I’m sorry but what?
Firstly, It’s O’Neil’s fault that we overspent on average players, not Lerners. Lerner backed him to the hilt.
Secondly, Houllier wasn’t a bad appointment, it was just unfortunate he had health issues, as others have said, had he stayed with us we would have improved ten fold. And before you retort with the usual “everyone knew he had health problems in the past” bollocks, well he wanted to take the job, he presented himself as being fit and up for it, it’s like saying a player’s career is over because they were once injured.
Also, Bent was not a bad purchase at all, and we smashed our transfer record to get him, and he kept us in the league, so why you would use that as an example of poor decision making i have no idea.
Great post Benno
All Lerner’s mistakes and mismanagement are killing the club. He put money into the club in the form of loans on which he recieves intrest thus making money anf if he ever sells the money he loaned would be taken into account in any deal with.potential buyers it seems he is fireproof. Two questions need to be asked
1 is the club in a better state now than when he came ?
2 can Lerner ever make Villa a force again given his austerity measures ?
I would say no to both !
“Great post Benno” ?
You must be kidding.
Never ceases to amaze how this site is littered with idiots right at the bottom of the intelligence chain.
Guest normally i agree with you but on RL we might differ..
RL is a good guy with his heart in the right place but he doesn’t have a scooby on how to run a football when it comes to the foresight of a structure.. Oneil we all know about but it was Lerner who bank rolled him and you can forgive the odd mistake.. but we had no scouting system no DoF.. just Oneil running everything..
Once we sacked him we went for Houllier followed by Mcliesh.. still paid dross fortunes without having a proper game plan..
As for Bent.. he was indeed a good purchase but we brought him in the knowledge that Young was off.. so that is one supply gone.. then with the Downing money we funded the Given Hutton N zog deals.. so in affect we cut the supply line and the funds weren’t there to replace them..
Then under PL we have a remit that average wage must be around 15K judging by the wages being paid and in Jan when we were right in it he hung us out to dry with NO investment.. i don’t believe for a second money as there and PL thought i want Sylla and Dawkins 🙂
So we went from a full on high wage swign to bargain basement buys..
This game plan might actually work IF next summer we spend 40M on a ST AM DM and a Defender.. otherwise serious questions need to be asked as to what is going on at VIlla park……………………………
Just for clarity, I’m pretty sure Lerner has not written off 100 million quid.
I’m almost certain it was 20 million, although he did take another 20 million he was owed, along with the 5 million a year he charges in fees.
That’s just for clarity though and I get the point Naughtius; he’s put serious money in.
It is by no means a gift though and he’ll get it back and more.
I think I’m the same as many fans, in that I think his heart is in the right place, but he’s also in it for the money (this is maybe down to the trust), which to me means he’s lost interest somewhat.
I tend to like the bloke. He isn’t the self-publicist that Ellis was.
But if he were to be replaced by someone with serious money, I’d be well happy to see him go.
In the meantime we’re stuck with him, which means spending is down to him alone. But if we keep following this trend of struggling, he will have to spend serious money eventually, just to retrieve the situation, imo.
Cutting spending is all well and good, but if you fail to invest adequately, you’re doomed.
Just ask Great Britain plc!
Just my tuppence worth :-).
“Just this year Learner waived 100 million owed to him by villa in interest.” We would have gone under if he’d have demanded it so don’t make him out to be a saint for doing this. If he pops his clogs any time soon his family trust can recall all of the loans when they want.
He has not waived 100 mill!
That’s just plain wrong.
Oh really. And just where do you think all that money would come from? The cash has been spent so it isn’t there to repay, short of selling the club or maybe borrowing from banks/investors. Lerner could have done that anyway. We would be in a much worse position if he had done that
Do you think Lerner’s family give a tuppeny shit about Villa. What do you mean where would the money come from? The club owns the ground and the training facilities so taking the club apart would be a piece of piss. Why would they care if Aston Villa continued to be a club?
A great article and a good talking point. Personally, for all his faults, I think Lerner is doing a fine job at the club. Sure our team may be a bit green at the moment, but I refuse to blame Lerner or Lambert for trying something different, especially when all else failed; spending big under MON, buying marquee players (Bent), and/or filling over the cracks with ‘proven talent’ (Ireland, N’Zogbia, Hutton).
The bottom line in today’s game is that no one is rewarded for long-term plans and everyone expects immediate rewards. Let it be due to broadcasting, sponsorships, media, or twitter, but this overall switch in expectations is the real issue. Lerner and Lambert are on the right path, all they need is some time.
So Lambert expects Benteke back by either the Spurs or Everton game after the Internationals, as he’s now walking without crutches and so they expect him back earlier than first thought.
Whats to say they never sat down and discussed a 5 year plan at the start of Lamberts reign….
First 2 years to steady the sinking ship while bringing in cheap potentials who can keep us in the prem and maybe become talent……
If those 2 years are successful, we will then invest in the club heavily, bringing in the names and the quality that is needed to push for Europe!!!
Well that’s what my crystal ball says…..
just for the record id say bent was an excellent buy, a massive gamble spending all that money on one player in jan and without doubt hus goals kept us up that season, in fact his goals took us from relegation battle to top ten.
the 100 million is something ive read recently on the net and of course cant guarantee 100% authenticity but even if it was only 20 mil(lol only 20 mil, sounds mad when you think of it)I guess the point is he’s seen by some as only in it for the money when to me anyone getting involved in a football club expecting to make money must be mad, it must surely be a given in the business world that buying a football club is not a wise nor safe investment of money and almost certainly will cost more than the owner will make and surely learner will have know that therefore he must be in it for the right reasons and waiving millions of pounds which ever way you cut it is a huge statement.
Sorry mate, but you’re the idiot.
O’neill made some terrible signings and I was glad to see the back of him, but who signed off on everything? Managers dont worry about the financial longevity of the club, they just work with whatever they are given.
Houllier would have been a good director of football, but not as manager. He should have been brought in with a younger manager to run the team.
We then sanctioned 24m for Bent…a good finisher, but one we just released on loan for 2m. How can that be deemed a good signing? Yes he scored goals that helped make sure we stayed up…but did we really need a 24m striker to keep us up? We ended up 10th.
In addition we also gave 35 year old Shay Given a 5 year deal, which by the looks of it we are going to have pay off. Brought in Stephen Ireland on big money when we had NO manager..etc…etc.
My point is that although the managers have to take a lot of the blame. Lerner and co. have been sanctioning everything. DO you really think that this would have been allowed at Everton?? Not a chance, and look how far they are ahead of us now.
How anyone can think Lerner is doing a good job is beyond me how many more times is he going to f*uk up before fans see the light. As pointed out Lerner allowed MON to spend what he did appointed Houlier knowing he had a serious heart problem and then hired McLeish going from stylish passing football to boring old fashioned football proving he knew jack shit and had no real plan. He is like a blind man in a dark room trying to find the door.Last season Lerner apoligists told us once the high earners were moved on there would be real investment and to be patien
And we are still hearing it the only plan at Aston Villa is to save money. We will never be a force again under this man and he is responsible for our club being left behind by the likes of Southampton and Stoke !