I’m keeping it short, as I’m still on my phone.
First, thoughts on the “no bank loan’ statement.
I think this is strictly speaking, a true statement.
While it’s true that we’ve taken money from Macquarie, I think it’s more of a forward sell, as opposed to a typical bank loan. The difference is subtle, but I believe it’s there.
Next is the statement that Xia has converted his loans to equity.
I don’t understand this one.
Yes, we’ve see a share allotment, but there’s been no value attached to them. It’s purely to improve the balance sheet, to suit FFP requirements,imo, which is good.
So if we’ve taken £40 odd million off the books, how much FFP trouble are we still in?
This is not made clear at all and it troubles me.
Do we really still need to sell Grealish?
I’m now not convinced, although it seems to me the Birmingham Mail are more than telling us that he actually wants to go, which is disappointing.
My stance would be that he’s going nowhere unless we get the right price.
There’s no doubt, we have to cut costs though.
Another one I have doubts about is the fact that any other shareholding won’t make a difference to FFP.
As has been explained, new owners would be given another chance to improve things.
The big impression I get is that the club isn’t in as bad a state as was implied by the media.
Or at least it’s not going bust.
But we are of course being set up for a period of severe austerity, which means playing more kids.
Given that we can expect no more than mid table at best, imo, I wonder if Bruce is now the right manager for us?
I predict that if we’re struggling, his contract will be allowed to expire.
Good luck England!
Comments
128 responses to “What to think of Xia’s statement?”
I suppose there’s not much we can do, just have to start from scratch Marvin,,
So he’s staying at the club?
Yep – Bruce is here to stay, but he easily could have walked. Personally I’m thrilled he did decide to stay, because I don’t trust Xia and I think Bruce’s experience should at least keep us out of the relegation zone this season.
If we sell Grealish for anywhere near £15 mill, I’ll be absolutely fuming.
As much as I rate Grealish, I’m not convinced he’ll get much game time at Spurs anyway.
If the club can get 20m + a player, I’d be happy. Although I would also keep Grealish and have him play until the winter window. It’s a big risk though.
I see Bruce is getting stick for basically saying “come and get our players cheap”.
Rightly so, too, imo.
How naive.
Badger, I’ve watched the Steve Bruce interview and at no point does he say ‘come and get our players cheap’ unless there is some other interview i’ve missed. He only says what everybody knows – firstly that some decisions would be ones he wouldn’t want to make and fans won’t like – player sales; second we are buggered by FFP (assuming we can solve the cash flow problems but then I suppose the two are contemporaneous) and third that the object this season will to be ensure survival (OK implied not specifically stated).
Why is he getting stick for being honest or have our fans stuck their collective heads in the sand.
I’ve been criticised for ‘defending’ Bruce but just at this moment given the sh*t we’re in and the lack of footballing knowledge at management level then I’m glad he hasn’t joined the ranks of those leaving the ship.
I fully accept that he has to bear a portion of the blame for not achieving promotion but the sad financial mess we’re in cannot be laid at his door.
Should I now put the telephone directory down my pants?
what bruce said was exactly what we all know, but most were in denial. other clubs know the shit we are in before today. what bruce has done is tell the villa fans the situation, the fans that dont believed in fake news.
i have been saying chester and kodjia will go along with grealish. in fact the whole squad will go if we have offers. the prices for them will be nothing like their value. but that cant be blamed on bruce its the way of the world.
the main deal we need to be strong on is grealish. if we can demand his going fee we just might save our club from sinking faster. but its simple the buying clubs will all wait to the last day of transfer window. they will send in cheeky bids. looks like the owner has all his hopes on selling players to recover his loses. but buying clubs will try their best to get the best bargains and we are a pound shop now
Let’s face it, nobody is going to put enough money into Villa to make a difference, and leave Xia in control with his record. He needs to sell. There is one alternative, Xia could find more cash of his own or his original backers. That cannot be a loan or a gift. It can only squeak through FFP if it is a subscription for new shares: and that acceptable by recent UEFA precedent, not a logical reading of the regulations.
I agree OLL – the writing on the wall says additional financing, in any form, from his backers is not going to happen and all ‘internal’ debt has already been swopped for equity (according to Xia’s statement).
and another final thought, if as predicted all the buying clubs leave their bidding last minute shopping at villa. we won’t have any time to bring in cheap replacements.
we are going to end up with a very young inexperienced team. most of you thing they are up for it. i am not so sure they would handle 46 games tuesday saturday. murphy gets injured playing youth football which play 20 games and much slower games and no tackling / contacts.
I think all Villa fans know we’re in trouble after Xia’s statement.
My point is if you were in trouble and had to sell your house, would you practically tell any possible buyers?
I certainly wouldn’t. I’d play a cannier game and say I’ll let you have at a discount, but don’t expect to take the proverbial.
And no, Hitch, he didn’t actually say it, but he might as well have.
Surely it would have been better to come out with the usual stuff and just play coy, the same as most managers do?
I don’t know, I just see a scenario where we let them all go and still don’t get the required amount.
What will the point of that have been?
Much better to just take punishment and a 12 point deduction, because selling all our best players will lose us more than that.
Or better still, Xia just sells up totally.
Rant over😀
I’m glad Bruce is staying Badger, but like you I think he is a complete numpty for naming players who will most likely have to go. All possible suitors will be rubbing their hands together at how cheap they will get them for. If I was to sell my car I wouldn’t be telling everyone that I needed to pay off a debt so I had no choice. Everyone knows we are in financial straits, but you don’t publicly declare that we will have to sell our prized assets. All he had to say was that he had to reduce the wage bill or something. Only at AVFC can clangers like this happen.
Holte – he didn’t name any players in the interview I saw.
Badger, think we will have to disagree about Bruce’s comments. Denying or refusing to answer the question wouldn’t change the facts reported widely in the press and let’s not forget Xia, in his statement, had already gone public on having to sell players before Bruce uttered a word.
If we meet FFP rules by selling our best players we will have no chance of promotion. If we break FFP rules by not selling, we can be prevented from getting promoted by a points deduction or simply being dropped out of the promotion/play off spots.
So, why don’t we just break the rules and see what happens?
The answer is probably that Xia doesn’t have the money. Selling players and complying with the rules means he doesn’t have to put his hand in his pocket.
A squad with the quality players moved on, and Bruce in charge is stuck in the Championship. I appreciate it probably makes sense for him to stay on now, but I am furious with him for blowing our promotion campaign last year.
Xia screwed up on the finances, but without the investment we would have been nowhere near good enough. He just handed it to the wrong managers.
That’s the story of our club for a great many years. Lack of investment followed by plenty of it but in the wrong hands. Doug Ellis refused to fund managers to make the leap from nearly club to winners. Lerner bankrolled O’Neill but then refused to carry on. We were on the cusp, and if O’Neill had been braver in the transfer market and bought a decent striker (Harewood and Heskey FFS) and a playmaker we would have been top 4 with all the benefits that brings. He spent £30M on centre halfs and £7.5M on strikers – go figure.
It’s just a tale of missed opportunity. Ultimately, if you get the wrong manager and fund his transfers, or get the right manager but don’t fund him, you get what we have got. Failure.
Your point about Villa’s long history of poor investment at the wrong time is well made DS. Di Matteo also has to take some of the blame for spending the majority of Xia’s money (parachute payments) unwisely and we’re still paying for that alongside players like Micah Richards who we might as well be awarded a life membership!
MON (how come his name still comes up!) has a history of leaving clubs in years of turmoil – must be a special gift he has!
In fairness, Hitch, one of the biggest criticisms of Bruce is that he leaves clubs in trouble too.
Hence I’m not so sure we can say he’s blameless.
Not arguing he’s blameless Badger but neither is he totally to blame.
MON comment was meant to be tounge in cheek to some extent.
Oh, agreed Hitch.
He’s only the manager and can be overruled.
But he must have been advising Xia, I’d have thought.
Certainly Xia seems to have faith in Bruce, although I expect that will prove to be rubbish too.
If we aren’t doing well, Xia will get rid as soon as it’s financially prudent, imo.
I’m sure I read yesterday that Bournemouth broke FPP the season they got promoted and recently got fined for it.
I suspect you’re right DS, he doesn’t have the money.
Maybe that’s why he wants the investment?
You’re right Badger – they got fined £4.7m if memory serves correct. They deliberately ignored FFP according to the report I read.
It’s ironic – increasing a clubs losses by fining them when their losses are already too great! Or maybe FFP fines are excluded from the calculations – just to add to the absurdity of it all.
What really annoys me is that Grealish may not want to go anywhere. He is contracted to us and that would be reflective in the asking price. But if he asked to leave then we would all be on his case as with Delph, Barry, Downing and all those years ago Yorke to name a few.
Please Xia do not us him a martyr to bail you out of the shit you have bought upon us. I for one will never believe anything he every says again and the sooner you are out of our club the better, your a fraud and can never ever be trusted, you have lost face with every Villa fan so sell and go.
I have heard the interview from Bruce and he has said it as it is, what else can he say apart from what we all know. He has at least has had the bollocks to sit in front camera unlike Xia who just’s write’s an open letter.
In fairness Rocky, if Xia did an interview, he’d never come across well and would be prone to saying the wrong thing, given his limited English.
But, yes I’m beginning to totally distrust him too, as much as I’m hoping he can still pull something out of the bag.
It’s just a disaster, isn’t it?
The Brum mail have confirmed that McCormack has been excluded from the training camp.
Anyone who thinks he has a hope in hell of playing under Bruce is deluded, imo.
Badger It is a disaster but in all of this he has done himself no favours. He came in and basically said in 5 years we would be up there with the likes of Barcelona when in fact the way he is going we will be down there with the likes of Barnet.
He would have to do something really quickly to save his face and anything negative would be seen as failure by the fans,.He has bought this all on himself in my mind.
Okay I am not switched on in the business world and how these people make their money, but it is apparent he is not what we all thought and hoped he would be after RL but this is now apparent as a few highlighted at the beginning about his true credentials and net worth.
When you hear negative responses when new things happen then you do not always look at the negatives moving forward, but focus on the initial positives.
That seems to be a very fair summation Rocky
Rocky, I can perhaps illuminate you as to how they make money.
He (they?) took the gamble at exactly the right time and got lucky in a market that nearly never falls.
It’s mostly luck (and probably inside info re China) and I’ll bet Xia (or his backers) can bearly believe he’s got this one badly wrong.
This is the part that worries me.
He has no experience of when it goes tits up, particularly when it comes to football.
It doesn’t bode well, imo.
Tell you what, I’d never say to a team before a deciding game , your going he’s going you’d be luck to get them to go 100% in a match. Looking back on that Fulham game it didn’t look right. He’s got players in Portugal training and some are for sale , is that a happy camp I would say not.
Badger Thanks for the insight but surely when you spend £80 million on buying a football club that is for everything including all the clubs assets. The running costs of the club and any outlay to bringing in additional players and staff are covered by the income the club generates from all it’s revenue streams including transfers. But surely the oversight on Xia’s part was that when the money he assured us he had dried up, then all he could hope for was PL Football to bail him out, which was in my mind a stupid thing to have done as this could ultimately cost us big time for years to come. That in my mind is nothing short of plain obvious stupidity and he should be held accountable personally.
Yes we had the players and the infrastructure to get us promotion on paper and we should have done had it not been for some poor tactical decisions on Bruce’s part after the Wolves game in the final run in.
If I am honest I do not miss the PL but what they should have done is managed the whole thing correctly on a financially sound basis had it not happened.
The next few weeks will be very interesting and I just hope that my loyalty along with thousands of others is not going to be another wasted load of money on season tickets and away games because some fool who runs our club cannot be responsible or financial astute enough to own a Great Club.
If he does sort it out and we do end up being sort of a stabilised financially sound club, then I hope it is not with him at the helm as he has burnt his bridges in my mind and there can be no going back as the trust has now gone completely.
The real elephant in the room is what is Xia’s ambition? Because after reading the open letter again I still don’t know what his measurement of success is. To get his money back? To see the club/his investment grow? To be proven a sound businessman?
Either way I have never know a company to be ‘efficient’ and successful when the boss works thousands of miles away and in trusts daily operations to a 29 year old with limited experience. What possibly can go wrong.
DS makes a good point about breaking FFP rules, accept the points deducted and hold on to the best players we have. Biggest problem is that if a premier league club comes knocking then we know they will be gone anyway. So thanks to another inept owner we are literally in quicksand sinking without any hope of getting out. I fell for the refreshing new communicative approach adopted by Xia after Lerner’s silence. Both have one thing in common which is naivety. Both started throwing money at the club expecting greatness in return. Both were obviously badly advised and when the pot was empty they both wanted their money back by selling our best players. The only constant during this time are the fans, particularly the 20,000 plus who have already bought their season tickets in good faith. We might end up with a new owner, manager and players in the near future, but the long suffering fans will still be there. UTV
its not a case of ignore ffp, who is going to pay the club wages every month. the drx has got the money, but he isn’t going to fund villa without a cat in hells chance of a return on his outlay. nevermind the issue of cant get money out of china. he doesn’t want to waste more money on us hes trying to cut his loses not lose more
about mccormack. i don’t rate him as a player. i wouldnt have him in my squad. but the point which is being overlooked. mccormack is currently on the wage bill. we paid over 10 million for him, plus the wages we lost already to him. if we send him to coventry you are resigned to running down his contract like richards.
the manager has to use all resources afforded to him. looking around the villa squad and i can say mccormack would score many from dead ball situations. many more than hourihane who if hes around will be our dead ball expert.
bruce likes a big strong forward and mccormacks gate is only a excuse he doesn’t fancy him as a striker. but if you bring him in out from the cold, he would bring in more bids than if hes frozen out. maybe bruce isn’t good enough to find a position for a 10 million player.
i think the way we create these bomb squads is all down to our own doings. we signed players without any research. swap managers willy nilly, the money has dried up and we look for excuses or ppl to blame, we should look at ourselves.
You miss the point. PSG, Man City, Bournemouth last season and so on. They ignore FFP and pay the fines. The destruction of the team under the current plan consigns us to the Championship for years to come. Where’s the return on investment there? Xia doesn’t have the money. Problems getting it out of China is just a cover. I doubt if it was Xia’s money in the first place (or at least a chunk of it wasn’t).
McCormack issue is just Bruce showing who is boss. Pointless waste of money and of a decent resource. Doesn’t surprise me but then I never thought he was the right appointment anyway so it just confirms my opinion.
Di Matteo was big gamble and a mistake. Bruce was tried and tested, and also a mistake.
ffp aside i am sick of hearing ffp and money stuck in china. its all down to costs of wages and transfers owed all out going money, its far greater than incoming money. xia and his backers won’t cover the mounting debts and existing debts . i read somewhere, we lost money last year with a 30 million parachute. just over the last two months xia has had to beg borrow and steal to pay two months income and debts owed. thats the point, i am not missing and others are. yes we can ignore ffp bulshit, but who is gonna dig deep into their pockets to pay the wages . especially mccormacks who will be brushed aside and we still pay his wages.answer he goes on loan,but because we cast his aside clubs, will say we will take him as long as you pay his wages, as you want him out
doesn’t matter who bought him, we villa made the mistake all this finger pointing is bulshit we are in trouble and pointing fingers or banishing players won’t fix nothing.
look without mentioning ffp or money stuck in china. how will villa pay wages this season. they couldn’t manage this last season with 30 million parachute. explain please how they will managed to pay wages,existing transfer debts taxes and other expenditures without 30 million less income. my maths must not be up to scratch. i won’t ignoring ffp just run more debts and xia can pay them debts hes the owner. bournemonth got a fine of 4 . 5 milion we can pay that with the money tree
i am gonna put my head in the sand sounds great down their
Every time the guardians of football pass these owners of football clubs as fit an proper. We know this is rubbish.
What if?
What if Dr Xia went he’ll for leather? Ignore FFP, pump money into the club and take legal action against any point deduction ( accept the fine – Bournemouth president demonstrates a toothlessness structure). Could this work?
I accept there are limiting factors, such as SB consistently playing attacking football! But to keep hold of Grealish, Chester, Green, Davis etc. I’d value your thoughts.
Sid – the more I read, the more I think Nath is right and that FFP is a convenient cover for the fact that we are broke and Xia has no more money whatever the source. Simply put, sell players or file for administration – outcome of the latter action – fire sale players and 12 point deduction and (maybe) new owners. So, whatever happens we are going to sell players.
Nath is also right in that we find ourselves in this position because of years of mismanagement overspending and useless owners – it’s a perfect storm. He’s wrong though in saying we shouldn’t hold individuals to blame for their part in all this including people like Tom Fox and the moneyball guy whose name evades me.
I suspect it’s going to be a long and difficult season and what concerns me most is the risk of infighting between the fans which will add to difficulties on the pitch.
UTV
And that is why I say Nath is wrong. He says Xia has the money. It’s obvious that he hasn’t.
On that point I agree DS.
Didn’t Xia transfer money into a British bank for investment when he first came over? Maybe I’m imagining that happened or maybe he did and he has spent it all. I think he has money but it’s all tied up in China IMO.
There was, allegedly, a £400m bank draft deposited in a UK bank. OLL has never believed that and neither do I.
Whenever I read the posts on this site I am amazed how many of you guys really know so much about the workings both from a Business point of view but also the in’s outs of the way these things work at our club. That is a compliment by the way.
Surely if genuine supporters like us all seem to know what is going on and the route cause of these issues then wtf are the people we entrust with our club doing when it comes to being advised? Because reading some of the posts it all stems down to the fact that no one at the top has a clue which is my perception.
Good question Rocky.
I think our problems at this time are probably down to Xia most likely ignoring any advice, myself.
It’s probably why Wyness is suing for unfair dismissal.
Thinking about it, it’s probably why Mervyn King left the board so quickly too.
I’m a bit confused and worried by today’s news that Xia is still picking up loans against the club.
Indeed.
The close season is obviously the leanest time for any football club, but the way it’s going, we’re not going to have any assets left to sell.
Very worrying.
But according to Xia’s statement we are ‘bank loan free’
That Rock1 is the problem. Aston Villa have and are behind the times in many ways, we as a club have just poodle along oblivious to all and sundry, Deadly Doug was a glimmer of hope he at least built us a descent ground, from him we have gone backwards, what we have now is a Chinese gambler that’s dropped a gooley. Villa fans beyond any doubt are the best in this country I know because I’ve seen it in black and white being said. Now we have to start all over again because the FA says we have to. and to think we started the bleeding game in the 1800s. ( Marvellous ).
all aston villa fans are suffering from villan grief
their are 5 stages i reached all 5 weeks after the efeat to fulham. i look around all post on different sites and the evidence is all around we are all suffering what stage are you on.
stage 1 denial
stage 2 anger
stage 3 bargaining
stage 4 depression
and finally acceptance
drX does have money and his helpers do. but they are not ploughing any more into villa, both hitch and dvilla make good arguments and i cant give facts to counter them, in fact i agree with both. hitch does seems to be right on the money, excuse the pun.
the part which we differ, does he or doesn’t have money is hard to prove either way. doesn’t help the situation any how. but drx and his backers are investors not supporters. they had a plan to make a killing on selling us and making profit. this mostly relied on promotion.
now they find themselves in a awkward position, they stand to lose their investment,unless they plough more in, or they can sell sell sell everything they can to reduce the running costs and recoup their money slowly. but its better than returning home with a big fat loss on their investment and in shame.
he could easily take out a loan in his own name, but hes isn’t doing that, he is taking loans out on club assets. hes nothing more than a breakers, we will be stripped down to the bone and finally he will be off selling the club for a small lost but he will have made his money some how these chinese always make money for themselves or they will get flogged back home
england time
its coming home home footballs coming home or the players will lol
i take my hat off to this squad. i thought they would be better than past squads, but nothing special. out of groups at best. but some good performances i hoped for. i thought their defence was weak, playing a fullback in the back three and the other two were not the best and experienced. i thought freekicks and corners they would struggle with mostly defending them.
france are a good team and will win WC, but we could reach the final and that would be a special achievement, croatia they have some tidy players but they haven’t preformed so far so we might do this come on lads