You know that old saying, “it’s always darkest before the Dawn”?
Well, it occurred to me just after we conceded the third goal.
I’m saying that because I want to sort of prove that I am trying to stay positive.
But I’m finding it incredibly difficult and I’m now mentally wrestling with myself, with part of me trying to make excuses and part of me thinking we are utter rubbish.
A decent excuse might be that Watford are actually a fairly decent side who are in a false position, for example.
But to counter that, I find myself thinking that they aren’t where they are in the table, for no reason.
Let’s get one thing straight. My blood is currently approaching boiling point, I’m that annoyed.
I actually thought we were okay in the first half and while Watford probably deserved their first half lead, I also thought we were slightly unlucky. I’d asked for quicker, more accurate passing and I think we mostly got it.
Even when we stupidly gave the ball away for their first goal, I was thinking that we actually looked quite competitive, as the half time whistle blew.
But all of that changed in the second half.
The shove by Luiz on Deeney was definitely a penalty, so I can’t complain.
But we seemed to just totally lose it after that and heads went, with Grealish possibly being the worst example. Just after I’ve praised him for now having all the tools in his locker, so he seemed to niggle and bitch at every opportunity.
I can understand frustration, but doubt he’ll have done his case much good in Southgate’s eyes, today.
The question is, why do I think we lost today?
Well, the first part is that the big difference is in the attack.
Watford looked like scoring, whereas we rarely did.
If Wesley had put that header in the net, it might have been a different game.
And the second, probably more important part is that I just don’t think we have the mental toughness to cope with the Premier league.
Yes, if things are going well, we’re fine.
But if we’re up against it, we lack battlers and experienced types who can dig in, without losing their heads.
And we’re going to be up against it more as the season goes on, in my opinion.
The next question that automatically follows is do I believe Dean Smith can do something about it?
I’m reminding myself about how poor we were before we went on our (12 game?) winning run last year here.
Can we do that again?
Well, Grealish came back in then and it was no co-incidence that we improved.
But who are we going to get in to make that sort of difference this time?
I don’t believe anyone can, unless it’s Ronaldo or Messi.
So do I think Smith has to go?
I’m debating that amongst myself and feel that as much as the knives might come out and they probably are already, it won’t be happening just yet.
Renewing his contract at frankly a very strange time, is probably proof that even if we go through rough times, the hierarchy think that the manager is doing a good job for the club as a whole.
And that’s how they look at things. Is the manager instilling good things throughout the club, from top to bottom?
Of course, contracts mean very little these days, so it’s always possible that the owners might change their minds.
But I suspect any calls for Dean Smith’s sacking will fall on deaf ears for now.
If we keep losing, there will only be so much clamour that the owners can withstand before they succumb.
And the biggest risk to Smith is that Pochettino is available.
But I think for now, it’s academic what I, or us fans think.
Which I suspect is probably a good thing.
Except I’m not sure.
Such is my indecision.
There’s no doubting one thing.
Results have to get better or we’re going down.
Comments
72 responses to “Watford 3-0 Villa; Capitulation, but trying to stay positive”
My head’s exploding with contradictions!
I’ll be missing for a while, I’m in my garage looking for my grinding wheel, …
I forgot.
I’ve had it with Targett for now.
Useless as a defender and a total fanny to boot.
Agree with most of what you have said Badger however reality is if things don’t drastically change we are going to be relegated, as at present we are the worse footballing side in the premiership. Watching Norwich at the moment and as our last game Norwich have a fighting mentality within their team in believing and battling for every ball. Unfortunately l feel we don’t have that in our current team and l am really finding it hard to believe that with JT we can’t hold our shape and discipline. We desperately need to add strength and experience during January to have any chance in staying up, without such additions l feel we will end up bottom of the league. DS needs quality in the team but also he needs to change the footballing tactics which he maybe lacks through experience of the premier league.
I am sure the owners are taking a keen interest in the way events are playing out and l wouldn’t be surprised if things were to change within in the management set up including DS to stay at the club but maybe in a number 2 role. Dark days ahead of us now let’s hope we can turn things around in the New Year!!
Tony Pulis is very good at ‘shapes’, apparently. So good that he retired Michael Owen because of them.
Seriously though, Jordo is bang on with “DS needs quality in the team but also he needs to change the footballing tactics which he maybe lacks through experience of the premier league.” I can forgive him for having a weak squad; that’s a consequence of years of mismanagement. But I can’t overlook the fact that he only has one way of playing. That’s not good enough at this level.
The only shape they seem to know at the moment is bent over with pants around their ankles.
not a hard game to sum up watford deserved the win. villa ended up gifting all three goals. beating watford today all depended on the first goal. had we taken the lead confidence would have been flowing, turned out they scored first and it was back to the walls from there to end. we started second half good, but we lack leadership at the back and discipline , we got dragged into silly confrontations, we lost our discipline and watford did too. both teams played the occasion. i was surprised they fell into this, but wasnt that we did. grealish i think lost the plot in the end. heaton had to calm him down in the end.
this game could be the end (doors) really could be. heads dropped big time. will take a mammoth turnaround to compete against burnley in a few days.
Where’s Terry in all this? He must understand the plight we are in, blame has to be shared with his advisors surely. I cannot imagine Smith over rules him on what got to be done.Can they not see who is shit in a game and who’s not. I feel that they don’t know enough to get us out of our mess, its a new person that’s needed to change tactics and understand who’s got it in the game and who doesn’t. God help us.
An embarrassing display all around today. Complete lack of both fight and ability. We are bang in trouble.
I watched Smith’s post match bs, ranting about decisions that went against us, he seems to be clutching at straws to me!…The fact is if his team actually started playing from the kick off we might stand more of a chance.
We are useless no-hopers at the moment and for me relegation beckons!!!
That reeks of desperation from Smith. Just admit you weren’t good enough; people will respect it more. Just be honest.
Without major surgery I can’t see us getting anywhere near 30 points, let alone the 40 target.
I don’t expect Smith to be sacked, so do the owners stump up a big transfer kitty?
Players who need off loading are Targett, Jota, Trezeguet, Lansbury, Kalinic, Kodja and Wesley. Problem is that hardly any of these are sellable because they are recent signings and downright stubbornness will force Smith to persevere with them.
The only bright spot in the last few games is Hause who should either partner Mings when fit or replace Targett at LB.
Oddly enough, we can still break out of the bottom 3 with a win next game. Realistically though I expect Burnley to do the same as Watford and beat us up. Men v boys!
I hope Smith gave them all a huge bollicking for waving the white flag from the get go. They all need to man up and fight for the badge.
I can accept defeat if the team has put in a shift and battled but today I’m left fuming.
Holte, I said about 3 month ago, if he’d gone 3 at the back with Hause on the left, Targett could focus on putting balls in the box and Hause could slot in at left-back if Smith wanted to switch to a four during the match.
As Smith is hell-bent on sticking with a back four though, yes, Hause would deserve his place, and why not at left-back. That would give Smith the option of Targett at left wing, seeing as though our wingers are shit. I’m sure Targett wouldn’t shirk his defensive responsibilities as, ultimately, he’s a defender. Same on the right with Elmo. He can put balls into the box and would give good cover to Guilbert. So, I offer Smith yet another option. Since the wingers our shit and our full-backs can’t defend, play all 4 full backs (Hause, Targett, Elmo and Guilbert), with Elmo and Targett as wingers in more forward positions. That’ll stiffen us up. Failing that, I suggest 3 at the back. Oh, wait…
Another thing that pisses me off about Smith is his reactions to how the game unfolds. When Watford went down to 10 men, why not throw Kodja on for Lansbury who was shit and switch Grealish to CM. But no, let’s wait till we are 3 down and game over.
Yep. Suggests fear, like his players. Fear comes from a lack of certainty and weight of expectation. Suggesting he’s uncertain of what he’s doing and struggling with the ‘weight’ of the club.
Well, it certainly seems that the internet concensus is that Smith needs to go.
I’d be very interested to hear what the consensus is amongst our superb away fans. You lose them and it’s all over.
I’m seeing a few shouts for fat Sam.
Are we serious?
Badger, I would take anyone who would guarantee PL football in 2020/21. Fat Sam, Pulis, Pardew, Sherwood – any of those clowns…but of course, nobody will come with a guarantee, so I believe Smith will remain. Despite my increasing frustration with Smith, I’d be shocked if they fired him after giving him a new 4 year deal.
Everyone – Smith, Purslow, Sawiris and Edens knew we needed another striker, a star attraction, before the window closed. They ran out of time, and probably money. They knew that 11 new players with no PL experience was a risk, but they had no choice, because after Dr Tone’s old boys’ contracts expired, and the big boys called their loanees back, we had no playing staff – a result of years of mismanagement. The budget wouldn’t stretch to 11 bona-fide PL players. So here we are. Thankfully, Bruce signed McGinn for peanuts before he left and had begun nurturing Grealish into the talent that he now is. But McGinn’s out, and Grealish is being paraded by the press to anyone who cares to have a sniff…
So, after my weeks of ranting against Smith, a dose of realism. IF the board can get him some reinforcements in January, we have the slimmest of chances. It worked last January, so they’ll have to repeat the feat. But, and it’s a big BUT, none of that defence of Smith changes the fact that he appears to be a one-trick pony. At Championship level, it was a nice trick – very entertaining. At PL level, well, it got boring about 2 months ago.
Candyfloss, anyone? Or will it be custard pies by May?
Well Badger, its like this Fat Sam has footballing Brains where Smith obviously doesn’t. I never did know where he came from as a Villa supporter did he ever play in major teams? Because I’m bloody sure as an amateur parks player and managed two teams in the Festival league for years I know who’s got it and who doesn’t. Sorry he’s had his chance I’m for paying him off and starting new for the rest of the season.
Bill, Sam is nothing more than a very short term answer and I wouldn’t touch him with a bargepole now.
We might as well get Lambert or McCleish back.
I don’t know much about him, but do know he comes from Smethwick.
I think he played for one of the local teams and have it in my head he’s anti Villa, for some reason???
Badger, if he could keep us up this season, I’d take it and ditch him as soon as the season finishes. Then go for Ancelotti. Oh wait, too late.
Reposting this because I didn’t realise there was a new post up. From the tone of the comments so far I don’t expect it to receive much support but hey ho…
Talking to my son (Chris) tonight he made a good point.
Burnley came up, went down and came up again the following season. The one constant Sean Dyche.
Chris is a big Villa fan but pretty level headed (rather like Nath) and his take is that promotion last year was ahead of the game plan and this season would always be ‘on the edge’. We should stick with Smith as Burnley kept faith with Dyche come what may this season.
He reasons that we need to build not continually tear the house down like Fulham did last season and we did last time we were relegated.
OK other teams in the EPL have replaced managers but they have done that at clubs where there are established EPL quality squads underperforming – Watford being a prime example – as Nath so succinctly pointed out.
Our squad is probably not underperforming it just isn’t good enough to compete week in, week out, particularly having lost two of its best players from key positions. This recent run just highlights how important Mings is to the team.
OK, we can criticise Smith for playing Grealish wide left but today it wouldn’t have mattered where you played him we would still have lost.
On reflection then and on balance I believe we should stick with Smith and look to build a team for the future.
UTV
Just to add – if you look at the circumstances of Burnley’s up / down it’s very similar to our own (so far at least).when they came back up as Champions they finished 16th in the EPL .
The reality is it’s extremely tough to stay in the EPL for promoted teams and it’s getting tougher.
Agree to a point, Hitch. But when did Aston Villa, as a club, become comparable to Burnley?
BFR, since they got back into the Prem before we did, maybe??
We all know the gulf has grown rapidly and massively over the last couple of years.
When we got relegated BFR.
If you want to define a club by it’s fan base or it’s history, when did any of a number of successful clubs in the EPL become comparable to Villa.
That’s not really the point is it?
Something along the lines of ‘how the mighty are fallen’ comes to mind!
I know, lads. But maybe I’m not ready to accept that Aston Villa are just a “half-arsed club that used to be famous.” Maybe the play-offs and the summer had me genuinely believing that we’d compete at the highest level again. Maybe I hate that fact that Wolves have come from nowhere in 3 years to probably finish top 4 by the end of the season.
Reality doesn’t half piss in the pot of hope, does it?
With you on that BFR and I wasn’t suggesting that we shouldn’t be looking and trying to compete at the very top.
My point was (and tbf Bruce said this) Villa need an extended period of stability – something that has been missing since he (who shall not be named) walked out of the club.
Years of Deadly followed by a succession of incompetent owners and unsuccessful managers left us in a state of financial and footballing ruin not 12 months ago.
In my saner moments I feel we are expecting far too much too soon and the knee jerk reaction is to tear up the script and start again – I admit to being guilty of that same knee jerk reaction,
It doesn’t matter which club you use as an example but continuity of manager pays dividends more often than not.
That was the point.
Fat Sam being tipped by Danny Murphy for West Ham, so no need to worry. We can go for Moyes instead, about 10 years later than expected. Just kidding. My anger has turned into relative apathy. F*** it, is probably the phrases that sums up where Villa are at right now.
We all want Smith to succeed but just because continuity worked for Burnley doesn’t mean it will work for us too.
FWIW I think the owners will stick with Smith. I just hope Smith, Terry and everyone else for that matter learns quickly from their mistakes because there have been plenty and currently they keep repeating them.
Totally agree.
Absolutely dreadful today. Smith needs to make changes to the way we are playing, and fast. We played well for approximately 10 minutes out of the 90 today, against pretty weak opposition. The 4-3-3 with our current squad isnt working, and we all know it!
More worryingly, a lot of our players are looking out of their depth in the premier league, and many of them were bought in the summer! You can only hope that the club will back Smith again in the transfer market, but we have to get it right this time. I know we needed to boost the squad numbers in the summer, but you when look at the likes of Trezeguet and El Ghazi, surely we should have put the money together and gone for one quality winger, instead of two average ones. We also have to bring in some who can score goals on a regular basis. Of course, the other problem now is we also look like we need another central midfielder with McGinn out.
Honestly, I think our season totally hinges on what we do off the field in the next month. Personally, I hope the rumours about Bowen are true, as I think he would be a great addition to the team, and scores goals for fun!
Agree. Apart from Bowen. Because he wouldn’t get any service with the current system and his young career and youthful confidence will be destroyed by average to poor coaching. Sound familiar? Sorry, can’t help myself…
Super diagonal ball from Norwich for Pukki’s disallowed ball. Smith, take note – a fat Sam trademark. Sorry, can’t help myself…
If the owners plan on getting rid of Smith, it has to be now. Otherwise back him and go down the continuity route.
Also I hope that if we are signing players, then I really hope it’s the start of January and not the end of.
I’d be staggered if they got rid, Holte. I think they’re going for the continuity route, which is fine. So Smith better ask JT if he can borrow his pencil and pad. Sorry,…
We have 7 games in January. 3 of them cup games assuming no FA cup replay. Remember Small Heath winning the league cup and going down (oh happier days). Deja vu anyone?
I hope Smith’s keeps his anger at the referee and puts it to good use.
The fact that he expected Watford to put the ball out because Targett was down sums him up. Did he learn nothing from the Leeds game? Looking at Pearson and Smith in the post-match interviews, who would be the bully at school, and who would be the victim? So the overwhelming evidence from the season is that Smith doesn’t learn, and he is soft – and that’s exactly what you would say about the Villa players, so it’s true that players reflect the manager. Am I wrong?
No BFR – I believe you’re absolutely right.
Smith is Mr. Nice Guy – time for a change.
Whilst I don’t advocate foul play, if you look at the stats in every game we commit less fouls than our opponents – that can’t just be a coincidence?
We’ve been sussed and need to be far more robust in our play – what’s the polite way of putting it – more professional.
Broadly speaking we have an inexperienced team led by an inexperienced management team.
We need to bring in experienced players in a January – even if it’s on short term loans.
I now have my guns focused on Heaton. Another of his inept efforts with a low shot. If a keeper can dive and get one strong hand on the ball and especially if he can get both fists to the ball he has to stop it. At worst with one hand he palms it behind the goal line for a corner. What he absolutely must not do is stiff arm or fist the ball so it is travelling across and away from goal when there is an opponent out there. Heaton is doing this regularly and what annoys me is he always has – for years at Burnley. He is not a good keeper and I don’t think he is now the best we have.
Smith ‘wanted to freshen it up today’ ! What? Against a bunch of thugs led by bluenose Deaney and managed by Pearson he brings in the weak Lansbury and Jota, neither good enough for this League, We already have one passenger in Wesley. If he wanted to change something he could have brought in Nyland.
I don’t think that would even work Hitch with a manager that thinks negative. I didn’t want to turn on Smith knowing he’s one of us, He had his chance time and time again and not learnt the game, I’m absolutely gutted that we the Villa having sell out games and thousands going to away games being treated like sheep. A smack around the ear from the owners might harden him up because I’m pissed off that bottom clubs have given us a lesson in football, Grealish will lose his heart by not being at a successful football club and move on,
Our owners are sports fans but first and foremost they are successful businessmen. The damage to the club from relegation will be their sole concern right now.
If they stick with Smith they will need to get reinforcements in Jan. If they are convinced Smith is the right manager they will do that. The timing of his new contract seemed strange at the time and even more so now.
What they won’t do is make a knee jerk decision. If they have doubts they will be lining up a replacement ready to push the button and announce a sacking and appointment almost simultaneously. They will know that it’s the right time to do it now if they do it at all.
Benitez would keep this team up. I’m convinced of that. I don’t think Smith will. I think Benitez would come as he would know the owners would back him particularly in the summer.
I like Smith but care more about us staying up. Maybe the owners think the same way. Far cheaper to pay Smith off than end up in the Championship. That’s what I would do but fortunately don’t have their dilemma.
Smith is completely responsible for the state of our club.
He selects the players and decides on the system.
Hourihane is not good enough, can’t tackle, can’t run only attribute is his set played which works occasionally, I can’t believe some people actually shout for him to start matches.
Jota slow no physicality not good enough,
Luiz light weight no physicality no pace,
HL championship player,
Elmo slow not good enough
Konsa dreadful player
El Ghazi should never play again.
Wesley why is he still playing? Why won’t Smith play Kodj? This appears to be Smiths decision.
Smith rants and moans are embarrassing yes it was a penalty, yes it was a fair challenge on Jsck.
Smith needs to look at himself and do the right thing resign.
Why has our club again made a rash premature decision and wasted money giving Smith a 4 year contract?
Smith out Benitez in.
i really am stuck what to say, i understand how we feel cause i am gutted too. but sack smith, really is that the answer. i believe in the guy and the squad. now results do not lie we are struggling and we are probably going to be relegated if we continue like this. but sack smith and replace with who. i seen names branded around like the former spuds boss. i do not think for one second he would consider us. rafa is another name, he also would not return to england unless its a top job /club. so if we sack smith for big sam or pulis i think we should continue with the plan and keep faith with smith.
it doesn’t surprise me one bit we are where we are. ppl are saying the striker is too blame. which is a part of the problem, one striker who is first timer in premiership. but the main problem is lack of leadership on the pitch. when things go wrong on the field, players look around and too their experienced colleagues for guidance. we lost our leader in mings he is also our best defender but offers us much more than just his performances, hes like a conductor who conducts his orchestra to play his symphony of destruction(megadeth)
yesterday when watford were reduced to ten, this is where our lack or leadership was exposed for me. we opened up immediately,the second that guy left the field we abandoned all defensive duties and tried to open them up. trouble is they were still dangerous, they had two fast wingers still on field and we got countered so easily by them. a more experienced team would have ran watford ragged. stretch them with width, tire them out then if the goal doesn’t come then stretch yourself further as the minutes run out. we had plenty time to go about salvaging a point or three.
also all three goals were our own doing. this has happened all season. first it was costing us small now they cost us big. we defended good yesterday before the sending off. we coped well from corners and in the air. but then we collapse somewhere else. that penalty was not a pen for me. i understand why it was given, it was very clumsy challenge. but luiz is about 11 stone piss wet through. that blue nose inbred is about 14stone he went down looking for the penalty. plus the referee should have stopped play for the injured player, man utd city pool would have demanded that and the referee would have obliged, but its only villa 🙁 . end of the day we deserved to lose that game. we allowed the occasion to beat us and we need to look for answers not excuses.
i hope they show that tap of rolling ball hitting sarr head over and over again. that is play acting award for me deserves a Oscar.
It’s not just yesterday Villa have been awfuL
Smiths refusal to change personnel or tactics and his inability or refusal to move to a plan B when we are struggling is down to him.
Why does he continue to play players who are either out of form or not good enough is all down to Smith as is Smiths refusal to accept that he makes the decisions, he is responsible.
It’s embarrassing to hear him blame everybody else but himself. Surely you can’t defend this?
I disagree I think Benitez if offered funds and promised ambition would come to Villa
Smith out
i think villa have more chances of winning this league this season than rafa coming to villa. yesterday defeat might well be the end especially this season.smith has a real tough job now, if it wasn’t already tough. online fans really believe we were gonna tear up this league. players we bought have potential,but they were always going to struggle, when the results stop coming. when the confidence ran out from winning promotion as winter set in.
we needed more experience, we also need more ability in certain areas. we like many before us have failed to bridge the gap. i would look to bring in three loans with premiership experience, i do not get fans saying why does smith not change it. what too the team he plays is the best we got. davis and kodjia are no better than wesley. the defenders are the best he has. the midfielders are the best. but sadly they are not good enough
Math not sure what you are saying?
It appears you agree with me.
Players not good enough this is down to recruitment.
Smith not willing to make changes.
Sorry don’t agree Wesley has had chances what opportunities have Kodjia/ Davis had?
I also think Davis offers more than Wesley, can’t be any worse.
Smith will get us relegated.
What really annoys me is his lack of responsibility and constant moaning complaining blaming everyone else but himself.
Davis has been injured for the last couple of months so hasn’t been an option,
I’m still not sure on Kodjia but it’s strange that he hasn’t at least been given a chance. I posted once before a question as to whether Smith is being influenced in his decisions based on the money we spent in the summer – if so that needs to stop.
I think a few will leave in January – Kalinic, Lansbury, Kodjia for starters but it’s who we bring in that will count.
If the owners are prepared to put their hands in their pockets (again) then we can buy – don’t believe the FFP rubbish spouted by the Mail it’s not even factually correct.
before i start receiving my hate mail. instead of repeating that smith is picking the wrong players or wrong formations = wouldn’t it be easier to post which players in our current squad are premiership standards. by this i mean which player would command a starting role in another club and keep the jersey. first name on team sheet.
i loved to start this Grealish oh and Heaton hmmmmm that is it, the rest are maybes. look at luiz if he was good enough he would be at man city. we have bought potential, i am not saying they will never be premiership. but when the chips are down. when the shit hits the fan we are found lacking in lots of areas.
we need more players who will not shrink in times of needs. grealish yesterday was frustrated with the players around him. guilbert had a simople two foot pass to grealish deep in watford defense. he over hit the pass by miles. grealish lost the plot with his team mates with referee and then the opposition, that was our captain.
i am off to church say a little prayer (dionne warwick) for us