Good grief, that was a poor performance wasn’t it?
Giving the ball away is bad enough and it feels like I’ve moaned about it all season.
But to combine it with what seemed like a lack of fight is shocking.
That said, I think I can put forward some mitigating circumstances, although I think many of you might not agree.
First, is a very obvious fact.
We quite simply are not good enough to compete with Man City, when they’re playing well.
The word “gulf” springs to mind and it’s perfectly accurate.
You only had to watch their midfielders and attackers quick thought and passing to see the difference. We’ve never shown that speed of thought and accuracy, because the players just can’t do it, particularly at pace.
Ok, I’ve seen the argument that we spent around £130 million in the window and we ought to be way better.
But that doesn’t wash with me. Dean Smith said himself that City paid £50 million for a Left back.
It galls, because we can’t do that, but it does demonstrate the difference.
We started Drinkwater. I guessed we would, because our midfield is frankly abysmal and has been since McGinn got injured.
But that massively backfired, as he looked way off the pace. My criticism here would be that did the coaching team not see that he’s obviously not fit?
Did Smith play him regardless, to try and get him up to pace quickly?
I said in the preview that he has more in the locker than Lansbury at least and I stand by that.
It’s all quite strange to my mind, because I thought Hause had an excellent game until even he caught the bug and gave the ball away for a goal.
Did we miss a striker today?
I personally don’t think so, as we never got hold of the ball enough to warrant having one on the pitch.
And that’s a damming indictment.
You might say my next criticism is an ongoing theme, but certainly today there were too many players who just aren’t good enough.
Hourihane was invisible, Taylor offers nothing in defence or attack and Elmohamady is judged by Smith to be a better defender than Guilbert (something I agree with, which says a lot about the RB position).
Having read around, it seems the “Sack Smith” mantra is slowly gaining momentum.
Certainly, I’d have agreed with it when the final whistle went, which is why I’ve given myself time to think about things before posting.
There’s nothing worse than a footy fan when you’ve just been spanked, after all.
But it’s a mantra I don’t agree with just yet.
Yes, you can take a rosey view, where we get a manager in, he adds one or two players and we suddenly click, going on to finish mid table easily.
But do we think that would be likely to happen? Really?
I think the only way we could massively improve things would be to change half the side for more quality and change the manager. And that definitely isn’t going to happen.
We could of course bring in a fat Sam type, who would probably improve the defence and while it might just keep us up, I’d see it as a backward step.
For me, we stick with Smith for the rest of the season, regardless.
I know what some of you might say.
“It just isn’t working” and “He’s out of his depth”.
While I’m inclined to agree at times, I’m not going to let an abject performance against one of the best sides in the world sway me.
That said, I thought our work-rate and effort today was awful. It was as if we were beaten before we started and that’s not acceptable.
If we maintain that against lesser sides then no doubt my opinion might change.
But we knew it was going to be tough this season.
It’s hard going though, isn’t it?
We stick and let Smith get a couple of players in, imo.
The trouble is, when do you decide to Twist?
If not this month, he has to get the season.
Interesting to see that Brentford are going well, even though Smith has left.
To my mind Villa might just as well have conceded the game before a ball was kicked! I say that because we gave them a 3 goal start. Unless something drastic happens I can see us going straight back down again, what a disaster for the club that would be.
And YES I’m one of the growing voices who think Smith is way out of his depth. His post-match interviews have become predictable and very repetitive, odd that isn’t it!!!
I know you’re not alone Tony.
The trouble is, I don’t see a forward thinking replacement to come in and I don’t want Allardyce or similar.
Do the hierarchy have someone in mind?
I really don’t see it.
They’ve chosen their path and will stick with it, imo, at least for this season.
You cant deny that we have had a fair amount of bad luck this season. To have lost 3 key players to long term injuries really has not helped our cause. Plus, we dont even have the reserve keeper available!
However, Smith has to hold his hands up for some things that have gone wrong. Only signing one striker in the summer was a risky move, We knew Davis was injury prone and Kodjia probably wasnt up to scratch in the PL.
Before today, the change in formation seemed to have been really working, and fair play to Smith for making this change. Having said that, Taylor and Elmo as wing backs?!! You have got to be joking. Those two wouldnt get into most championship teams, and definitely not as wing backs. They were both hopeless today. Why he dropped Guilbert I have no idea.
Then there is the midfield. Starting Drinkwater was a terrible decision, we knew he hadn’t really played in 2 years. At least Nakamba shuts players down and chases the ball. Hourihane is a passenger, and Luiz (who I actually rate) had a shocker too. We gave our defence no chance today.
We have to bring some quality players in and fast. The upcoming games are massive if we are going to survive.
We’ve wasted our 2 loans on has-beens in Drinkwater and Reina – dread to think what the next masterstroke from Suso will be. Dean is not good enough to be a PL manager but the board and sporting director have screwed him over with a poor summer of recruitment and the January window is going the same way.
2 huge games to come starting in 5 days time at Brighton – they should be working through the night to get a decent striker in. I cant help but feel we’re all going to be massively dissapointed. The fans need answers from Purslow – he was all for doing interviews after the play off final. Where is he now when we need some leadership?
Happy New Year, chaps.
A few random points:
Nyland kicking to the opposition and generally nobody – he excelled at this in his home debut vs Wigan last season. Nothing’s changed. I hammered him on this site until, mercifully, he got injured and lost his place. A massive liability. I hope Pepe has actually put pen to paper before he changes his mind.
Suso, Jesus, whatever you want to call him. I’ve hammered Smith for tactics and being soft. But he didn’t sign the shower of shite he’s been handed. Massive question marks against the man who gets paid to source players for Aston ‘Billa’…if anyone should be sacked, maybe he should go before Smith. How is what came through the door in the summer any different to what Faulkner did in ’16? There won’t be any ‘profit’ on these ‘young’ players. They’re not good ‘investments.’ They’re just another page in the catalogue of horrible errors from the men who get paid handsomely to run a great football club.
The no strikers issue was obvious to everyone when the summer window closed. We knew this would happen. But again, that’s not Smith’s fault. It’s like asking Gordon Ramsey to cook you a roast without any knives.
Someone made the excellent point of not only the players being out of their depth at this level, but also the coaches. Cut to Watford and their miraculous turnaround, and who should be in the dugout alongside the hard as nails Pearson? None other than Craig Shakespeare, the man credited by many for Leicester’s PL title, taking nothing away from Claudio. How we need a coach like that at the Villa…
Our season, like last, hinges on this transfer window. But the names being mentioned, again, don’t have PL experience. Benrahma is a class act, but his price has probably doubled since the summer; that boat may well have sailed.
Today, we were beaten because City’s players move the ball quicker that ours can think. Simple as that. That’s the difference between world-class serial winners and novices.
Finally, back to Nyland. Apparently, all the saves made this weekend have raised 28K for the disaster in Australia, courtesy of Brighton’s Aussie goalie. As Nyland didn’t make any saves, he might want to put a tenner in the pot.
The thing about 2016 is that a number of the players we signed have turned into more than decent footballers making profits for the clubs that acquired them from us. Idrissa Gueye, Vertout, Ayew, Traore and the LB whose name escapes me. And how many fans would now have Enda Stevens in at LB?
We shouldn’t be too quick to write them off.
Anyone that don’t come to Villa have better opinions, honestly can you see us making any different even with a striker, or even a midfielder that runs his heart out. The clowns we have cannot work out where to be if the ball coming at them, what do you think all the managers in the premiership are thinking now, they will tell their men to run at Villa and fight for the ball, we will back off regardless in trying to win. Yes I’ve lost hope of us winning any games as from seing us being humiliated by Man City.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jack-grealish-aston-villa-transfers-17555809
I like this interview from JG – speaks volumes for his growing maturity.
Whilst I can’t deny Smith and his coaching team is on a learning curve in the EPL he really can’t be held 100% responsible for the poor attitude, work rate and commitment of the players once out on the pitch. Added to that his hands are tied because of the real lack of depth in the squad.
He inherited an ageing side that needed completely rebuilding in whichever division we had finished last term. We were also lucky to be promoted – or perhaps I should say unlucky? Add to that the enforced transfer policy (by Purslow / the owners – not Smith) of not buying anyone over 26 and one starts to realise we went into this season with a completely new squad as inexperienced as the manager (I honestly think we made a mistake by not extending Whelan’s contract for 12 months – he’s available and match fit – would that be so daft?)
Is it any wonder that performances are so variable?
For all these reasons I don’t see sacking Smith as the answer unless you can bring someone in of great experience (such as Benitez) and hand them another £100m to spend in the last couple of weeks of the window (because that is what someone like Benitez would demand – not going to happen).
Imo we will look to loans with one eye on FFP in the event we are relegated and be prepared to be underwhelmed!
Personally, I don’t see Reina as a bad solution – If I remember correctly wasn’t Friedel around Reina’s age when he joined us and yes we need to bring Drinkwater up to match fitness – expect him to start on the bench next game.
Before the game most fans expected to get beat by 3 or 4 goals, but most fans did expect the players to put in a full shift, and that did not happen, and its what annoys most fans who are calling for Smiths head.
And its what annoys me most about our coaching staff, why when you watch Sheff U, Watford (under Pearson) and Man C, Liverpool and all the top sides, when the opposition has the ball the pressing is fast and hard, in your face if you know what i mean, when you watch Villa they press by going close to the defenders but they still have loads of time to pick a pass and play through Villa.
Its called hard work!
Why can other teams do it and not us?
Dont they get paid a fortune to do this once or twice a week?
As for recruitment, with the position we are in we need experience and quality, so i think Riena is a good choice till the end of the season.
Drinkwater you have to give him time to get up to speed but we dont have time to do that, so i think that was a mistake
As for a center forward i think we need someone like Giroud on loan, but we have used all our loans now so ………… its going to cost us a lot in the fee and wages to buy some 30+ experienced striker and as there are loads of clubs looking for the same i dont see it happening.
Which is why i believe sadly we will go down this season.
And one final thought
I have followed the Villa since i was a boy in the 1960’s
and i always thought that it was Doug Ellis who was responsible for holding the Villa back, and then Lerner who Ellis picked to sell to.but it seems it affects everyone who comes to Villa park, and its this ….
How do clubs like Wolves, Sheff U, This season and in the past teams like Leiscester and Palace manage to get the right staff in and build a decent team that can compete with the big boys (sky 6) and have at minimum a comfortable mid table team.
And yet the Villa cant? it baffles me.
Surely we must have bigger support, more cash, be more of a draw to top staff etc etc.then these clubs?
Shouldn’t we?
Good point on loans TGV. I thought we could have up to four loan players but there is a further rule saying ‘no more than two loan players may be registered at any one time’ – I assume that means you can register a maximum of two in each window which, if correct, means you are right in saying we have used up all our loans.
In any event we couldn’t loan Giroud because a team can only register one player on loan from any other club.
So, if my interpretation is correct, we will have to buy any further additions to the squad.
Some very good points Hitch, I cannot see us improving even with a striker, the whole of the team needs motivation in addressing the win win attitudes. The bite gone out of our midfielders that’s for sure, it was blazingly obvious mistakes by defending, mistakes by goalkeeper, that now leads to the way of training, I’m beginning to think is it the players wondering about whether they are in a job at Villa Park. Man City was far better than us in every department, we have a long way to go in getting our players any way near to being good enough.
Center forwards like Giroud and Benteke are not the answer i’m afraid and I personally do not see them as an improvement on Wesley, their best days are way behind them.
We need a dynamic forward who can run in behind the defenders, not 6”4’ forwards with no pace that encourage long ball tactics, surely if Smith is to be a success then we need to start bringing in players suited to the style he wants to play.
Why we didn’t buy Maupay I’ll never know, Jesus needs sacking and player purchases need to be part of the managers role.
I was surprised about Maupay, even more so that we didn’t add another quality striker when we didn’t buy him. I did see an interview with Smith where he said that he thought the price for Maupay was too high. Not sure if he was covering the club/Jesus with that comment or whether that was his actual opinion.
I totally agree about the type of forward we could do with. Piatek seems like it might be a possibility. He may have better options though.
The reality is though that Maupay hasn’t been that prolific thus far this season only managing two goals more than Wesley but then we did pay £22m for Wesley so we could have saved a couple of £m 🙂
That, however, tends to shoot a hole through Smith’s argument about cost?
I don’t think the argument was about cost per se, rather about a belief that the price was more than he was worth. The stats are true of course, but Maupay seems a much more mobile player than Wesley, and I think would suit us better. Maupay is certainly scoring at a higher rate bearing in mind the goals scored by both clubs. Not that that means anything perhaps.
Given a choice between the two I would take Maupay (and not just because he isn’t injured 😉 ). Would you go the other way?
Don’t worry lads we’ve made an offer (well according to Birmingham Live) for 20 year old Arsenal striker Eddie Nketiah who’s returned from a loan at Leeds because he couldn’t hold down a first team place.
If this is the limit of our ambition then heaven help us.
Maybe they’ve introduce an average 26 year old rule now so Reina plus Nketiah average age 23.5 – sorted 🙂 hysterically!
Aghhh – bloody maths – of course it’s average 28 so bang goes that conspiracy theory.
where to start summoning up this match, first off i thought we were lucky it was just the 6, city should have been in double figures. man for man we do not belong on the same pitch as man city. but for all city superior ability they were given a major helping hand to a very easy victory by villa.
in any match if one side shows no appetite to carry the fight, its simple the other side will show no mercy and they will hunt you down.basically villa surrendered before the first whistle.
a major error for me is the formation, 352 /532 what ever we tried to play yesterday. we had 3 centre backs who all kept retreating. then you have two wing backs who never once made our midfield into 5. man city play against teams mostly every week who try to contain them. they know how to play against this tactic of putting numbers in front of goal (parking the double decker bus). city just occupied the wing backs and the three central defenders.
now lets try to figure out what went wrong with our offense, we just had no midfield to hold onto the ball. we tried to play through the press, but with 5 defenders and two holding midfielders, we just had nobody to pass to in advanced positions. el ghazi and grealish were just cut off from the rest of the team.
when you face a team with Superior ability in every position. you have to rough them up, or get them turned around facing their own goal. ie you hoof the ball down field and push you backline out from your own penalty area. el ghazi was never given anything to chase in behind. maybe one i think which we got a throw out off. i saw one foul where luiz booted a city player in the shin. but on a rare occasion we had three on three situation with their defence. grealish finally running at them. Fernandinho did what villa failed to do stop back tracking and stop the danger from the source. by any means. he took out grealish with his shoulder.
end of the day we would have lost this game whatever tactics we adapted. for the future thou, we have got to stop trying to contain teams. we just have not got the players to do that. we need to stop this 3 at the back and play 2 wingers even thou they are not great. they do both have pace and this is a skill that teams do not like to face. if we play games and offer no dangers to the opposition they will just load up more on the offense.
Nath, that’s why I couldn’t understand Elmo playing instead of Guilbert. Like you said, we need quick wingers/ wingbacks to make the system work. I can understand Smith picking Taylor simply because Targett is out. Trezeguet looked lively when he came on for Hourihane but the game was already over by then. Our midfield was non existent yesterday and our unlucky defence must have felt like the Alamo! The game was conceded by our players AND Smith before kickoff. When we went 1-0 down, heads began to drop which was unforgivable in my book. If only I had gone into work and said to my gaffer after the first half hour I was going to take it easy for the rest of the day, I don’t think I would be working there much longer.
trezeguet is a good example you made. your right when he came on for hourihane i think. he immediately offered us a outlet and gave city some concern, in fact won the penalty from his endeavours.
i think we started the game offering city no dangers. grealish is always a worry for any team. but when you isolate grealish from the rest of his team. you can neutralise him.
soon as city read the situation we were just in for the point. they pressed the offense button. they had nothing to fear. it was embarrassing game of attack verses defense and only one winner their
My main question is – why make so many changes from the Leicester game. Why not start with the same team and have Drinkwater on the bench?
As I said when the team was announced – I’m confused, can someone explain what we are trying to play here.
To that extent Smith has to take responsibility. Just because the modern way seems to be changing the team all the time – you don’t have to do it. Sir Ron won the Championship with 13 players if memory serves correct.
However that doesn’t excuse the players for lack of effort, grit and determination!
i personally believe we were lucky against leicester, they were bad they never pressed villa until the second half. they where too cautious.
as for drinkwater i think smith wanted to get some playing (match) time into his legs. quicker he gets him match fit the better, because he must feel that nakamba and luis are not up too it. i agree they are just a little short at the moment.
If that’s the case Nath why the seniors, he could have had him in the reserves. To me all what Smith done is unacceptable, you me could have picked a better side, he demoralised his team in what he did.
reserves bill is slower than anything. in fact their is no reserves anymore. just a under23 but its slow pace. he would never get match fit playing that.
I can only imagine what Sir Ron would have said to the team at half time if it had been in his spell at the club.
On a different note, I have seen a link for Chester to Middlesbrough. Stuff that! He should be playing alongside Mings. He is our best defender when fully fit. Smith seems happy to let Drinkwater get up to match fitness at the expense of the team, so why is Chessie not playing? He’s better than Engels and Konsa and more experienced to cope with the pressure we are under.
We simply can’t afford to lose away to Brighton. The team selection / formation / man management has to be spot on.
Oh and not forgetting a signing or two! We have known since August that we needed another striker and still nothing! Whatever’s going on behind the scenes is simply not good enough.
Holte – I guess the answer is that quality strikers are just not available – well, not for what we can realistically afford to pay and then strikers at that level will have teams like AC Milan and Dortmund for example interested which puts us out of the running straight away.
They may have to settle for second best because it’s absolutely vital we sign one and soon. Badger made the point that it wouldn’t have made any difference on Sunday and I agree up to a point. We still would have lost but wouldn’t it have made a difference to the shape and psychological attitude of the team and therefore the performance.
Another point not specifically mentioned is the absence of McGinn. We all recognise the importance of Mings to the defence and McGinn is the equivalent in midfield which, in turn, allows Grealish more freedom. We miss him terribly.
I might have missed something, but couldn’t we have played Hogan? At least he is experienced. It’s probably that they expect to sign better and then can’t offload him. I think you can’t play for more than 2 teams in a season
Hogan on season long loan to Stoke but rumour has it that Stoke are prepared to send him back to Villa. I posted a couple of weeks ago that I’d rather have Hogan playing than Kodjia.
I don’t understand why we don’t get him back assuming that we can.
Ah my bad. Thought he had returned already
Tbf DS I had just assumed he was still at Stoke.
I’d expect Hogan will go to Celtic.
And look stunning in the SPL or whatever it’s called, the same as any useless English player does.
The fact that Smith binned him off to Stoke says a lot to me.
Pepe Reina signs an on loan deal, also was watch Villa 6-1 defeat, wonder what he thought.
a glutton for punishment 🙂 yesterday must have shown him what kind of protection he will get. if i was nyland i would be happy to sit this season out
Probably thought “I could have saved a couple of those”!
Seriously though, he will get a chance to show the Prem if he can still do it, and if we go down get another gig with someone else for a few seasons.
Can we play both Reina and Nyland? With our midfield we will probably need it. We have had by the most shots against us than any other team in the prem. It could have doubled after Sunday!
I think Smith has his hands tied and has nothing to do with the player’s he wants, he’s just given the player’s and told to improve them and make money for the owner’s who are only in it to make money out of Aston villa.
Latest rumour is that Susu is targeting Llorente and Callejon currently with Napoli. Said that the pair would cost about £12m with majority of the money for Callejon.
Anyone have any knowledge on Callejon – Llorente we know from Spurs.
34 and 32 years old respectively. Sadly seems to fit the bill of people Suso might have knowledge of but at that age, I don’t think it’s the answer. I’d rather we spend on someone young who we can keep next season should we go down.
Llorente I would take. It’s all about survival. Deal with a longer term solution in the summer. Callejon I don’t have a scooby. I think we will all be pleased at the end of the month, but a stressful ride getting there.
Llorente only scored 2 goals in 36 games for Spurs. Hardly a pedigree to keep us up.
Oh OK. Let’s ignore his scoring record across his career and focus on that period then. Now tell me who we should buy, who we can afford, who would come to the club, and would keep us up.
Here’s your big chance!
Sure, let’s judge an aging striker by how he did when he was sub-30. In that case, let’s bring back Gary Shaw, after all he’s not yet drawing his state pension.
As to who else? Anyone… Literally anyone. Lewis Grabban, Ollie Watkins, Mitrovic, Benteke, others on the continent… Literally a.n.y.o.n.e.
Gotcha. You want Benteke who has scored 0 in 15. That’s even worse than Llorente. Personally don’t think Grabban (32 yr old) can cut it in the Prem. Mitrovic was carried off on a stretcher 3 days ago and looks like he could be out for sometime – maybe not the best transfer idea. Watkins I like the look of but untested at this level.
Let’s face it guys – we’re getting to the position where just about anybody claiming to be a striker is in our sights 🙂
Sadly that’s true. I wonder how close we were to buying another striker last summer. A missed opportunity that has come back to haunt us.
At the pinnacle of football you need brains as well as ball skills.
Players with brains show it is a number of ways, the most common being their reaction-time to the unexpected, like a loose ball. Next is anticipation, vital in a GK but also in a player who plays-off a central striker.
Sherlock Holmes called it ‘the dogs that did not bark in the night’. An absence of something is a clue, and a manager who is calmly watching the game – not running and yelling might be a clue. Not always – he could be a Lambert who isn’t yelling because he hasn’t got a clue what to change. But if the game is going his way or even if the scores are tied a manager who has a team full of intelligent players knows he does not have to shout more instructions, his players have the nous themselves to adapt.
Pep always signs intelligent players. I suspect several of the Villa players are not that bright. After a few minutes it became clear we could not cope with the speed Citeh moved the ball if we stood off them but we continued to do that. Nobody tried man marking them tightly, with the ball or without it, to make all their passes a risky pass.
As for Smith, maybe my opening line is true for him. I said pre-match our best route to goal might be Trézéguet attacking from wide right – and blow me Smith doesn’t even start him. When he comes on he looks dangerous.
It’s interesting that people are now starting to think that the players we have, have come in because of Pitarch and not Smith.
I said this from the off, but no-one seemed to agree with me, to the point that I thought I must be wrong.
Somewhat strangely, I’m now thinking that Smith wanted them all and you lot saying the opposite are wrong.
I suspect there’s some serious psychology going on there, where we all just want it to come right.
No, having thought about it, I’m seeing a repeat of when we went down last time.
Pitarch has got this bunch of rookies in, as it complies with his remit and they’re definitely going to make a profit.
But it won’t be for us, as we’re only giving them experience and will be forced to sell them cheaply.
This is the whole problem with trying to get value from young players.
You have to concentrate on staying in the fucking league first and foremost!
At this moment, I think I’ve had it with Yank owners.
But I’m still hoping we’ve got it right.
Only one of them is a Yank Badger 🙂 Aren’t the Liverpool owners from the good ‘Ol USA and if I recall came in for a lot of fan criticism originally? All quiet on the Kop now though (metaphorically speaking).
Also I think there’s a world of difference between Randy and Wes Edens.
On balance I think Smith bought into the idea of buying young players with talent and backed himself as a coach.
Imho comparisons with 2016 are way of the mark. We are suffering the sort of variable performance that goes with the inexperience and more is learned and quickly in adversity. Yes we need some experience but tbf this appears to have been recognised and it also seems likely the owners are going to stick their hands in their pockets again; but trying to buy quality strikers in January?