Now the dust has died down a little with regards to Sherwood’s sacking, I’ve been trying to think about what it is exactly that Aston Villa need from an incoming manager.
I’ve said previously that the job has become a poisoned chalice and that’s definitely true, as although the manager and his assistants might change, the hierarchy won’t be.
I was hoping that there might be a root and branch change, with Hendrik Almstadt (sporting director) and Paddy Reilly (director of recruitment) getting the bullet too, as it strikes me they’re all part of the team that has overseen the disaster that has been the first quarter of the season.
Taking a retrospective view, there’s obviously been a divide at the club over the last few months, with the coaching staff on one side and if you believe what Sherwood’s said about who signed many of the players, the recruitment team.
But no, it’s obvious that Randy Lerner has sided with the team that recruited the players that frankly haven’t performed and most likely aren’t going to as things stand.
Just before I explain what I think that means, can I just say how glad I am that Wilkins has gone?
I fail to see exactly what he added to the setup and as far as I know didn’t seem to offer much advice to a beleaguered Sherwood.
Did he really approve of the team selections and tactics? If so, I doubt he’ll ever manage again.
I suspect the only contribution he made was probably “keep playing Westwood”, but it’s by the by.
I’m digressing, but just wanted to say that, sorry.
So it doesn’t take an Einstein to work out that it will be business as usual, with any new manager having to work with mostly the players that Almstadt and Reilly’s policy decide to bring in.
A policy that is based on Moneyball tactics.
It’s a nice sounding policy, but it’s basically a different version of what we saw under Lambert, in that you look for young, up and coming players.
Ok, they’re bought based on statistics, with a view that we can make money on them, if they perform and the chances are that you’ll get some players who might make a profit. Indeed, it looks like we could possibly turn a profit on Amavi.
But they’re still ultimately cheap; that’s the whole idea, after all, isn’t it?
Now, it’s a great policy if it works and any profits are re-invested in the team, with a view to constantly improving the squad.
But Lerner hasn’t invested any decent money for a long time now, so I doubt anything is going to change and it strikes me that any profit we might make will only go to Randy Lerner’s back pocket.
So what’s the point?
What it basically says is that we have absolutely zero ambition, in my opinion.
Which is why I don’t believe that any manager that has ever been in a higher position than we currently are will countenance the idea.
Now I have no idea what sort of setup David Moyes is working under at Real Sociedad, but I think it’s safe to say we have no chance whatsoever of getting him in. Or any other previously reasonably successful Premier league manager, including Rodgers.
So who’s going to come in then?
Well, it’s going to be someone who thinks that £15 million (if we’re lucky) is a decent spend.
Someone who has demonstrated that he can work without a boatload of money, but still achieve at a decent level.
Hence Remi Garde, as has been alluded to in The Guardian, The Daily Mail and various other news sites, fits the bill perfectly.
Assuming he’s used to working with a setup where he doesn’t choose the players, that is?
But it’s an appointment that’s not without risk.
While foreign managers are seen by many as the way to go, they simply don’t always work.
Villas-Boas was seen as THE next up-and-coming manager, for example.
Not that I’m saying we shouldn’t go for a foreign manager (although I might question why he’s been out of work for a while?).
It’s more that I don’t think that whoever comes in will make much difference, at least in the time allotted.
We need someone who can revitalise the team quickly, pretty much in the same way, erm, Sherwood did.
Will any foreign manager, who will be coming in to a strange country be able to do that?
It’s why Garde is probably our best bet, in that he knows the English game to an extent, having played for Arsenal.
He also knows the country, obviously.
But while I will of course support any manager that comes in, I believe his tenure will be ultimately doomed to failure.
Because nothing has really changed and we’re stuck in a loop.
God knows how this is going to pan out. On the footballing front though, although Sam A has clearly had a bit of an effect on Sunderland, Newcastle look in trouble. I would add Bournemouth to that as they are shipping lots of goals (plus small inexperienced squad that’s lost some of their best players long term). Then there’s Norwich who look shaky too. Those three might be our best chance of staying up if we can get someone in who makes a real change.
If we get any one of Pearson, Redknapp, Dyche, Yorke (seriously?), Poyet, Rogers I fucking quit the club completely until the board is out! Some of the reports are beginning to look very woorying! We absolutely have to go for a european/foreign manager
Poyet’s foreign.
his accent is
Poyet – no, no, no a 1,000 times no.
Nigel Pearson is EXACTLY what we need. I’d be very please, to say the least, if he turned up. I’d be surprised if he wanted to come. Why does everyone think a foreign manager is better? Our problem is none of our players have PL experience, so why compound that mistake by getting a manager who doesn’t have experience? What Pearson did at Leicester was even more impressive than what Sherwood did for us, and I’ve no doubt that Ranieri is reaping the benefits of what he instilled in the team…
Claret and Blue, why have you got Rodgers on your list, didn’t he give Paddy Reilly the sack when he was at Pool, there’s no way he’d want to work with him again. I would kill for Villa to play the kind of football Rodger’s had Pool playing the season they finished 2nd, don’t think he’d give us a seconds thought to be honest.
Rogers is unlikely as you say Dave.C, very unlikely it’ll happen. Speak to any liverpool about his ‘philosophy’ and the ‘beautiful attacking football” and they’ll actually tell you how one dimensional it begins to appear. No plan B. We need a proper tactician,
Odds on Justin Edinburgh dramatically dropped this morning. Only at Villa, when the managers position at Villa becomes available we always seem to go down from a reasonable option to the bizarre and the ridiculous.
I remember when somebody said the next Villa manager has ginger hair, everyone thought Moyes and we got ……..
The manager of the mighty Gills?
Ok then and if we’re thinking outside the box how about Graham Arnold? A 52% win rate with the Central Coast Mariners and he’s presently top of the league with Sydney FC.
Ginger hair – remember that the bookies had shortened the odds on McLeish drastically the night before the official news release; they got the ginger bit right…
The first thing I will say about Sherwood’s sacking is at least we won’t have to hear any more “It will all come together soon” or “We are nearly there”. Surely that meant that he knew what to do to win matches. Well if that was the case then why did he not employ the tactics to do this if he knew they were going to work “any time soon” ?
I have to say I dislike it when someone refers to the Premier League as ‘English football’. In my opinion, the typical style of what I regard as ‘english’ football, can be seen regularly in the Championship. The only connection the Premier League has with ‘English football’ is that it is played in England. It has become so cosmopolitan, in terms of managers and players, that it is really a mini European league.
I do agree, however, that the root cause of all issues at the club lie with the powers that be above the manager. These people know nothing about football but unfortunately control the finances of the club and therefore what they say goes. I actually think that, Delph and Benteke apart, we have a bit more quality in the squad but we need the right man to maximise that quality on the pitch. Moyes, for all his subsequent failings since leaving Everton, knew how to close a game out when he was in charge of the toffeemen. I would wager that Villa have lost the most points from winning positions than any other Premier League side in the past few years. Rodgers at least has more tactical awareness than Sherwood. Remi Garde is an unknown quantity and is therefore a risk but any manager coming in is surely a risk. It is time the right decision was made and for the reasons that we all want and that is for the success of the club. I won’t hold my breath though.
Mark – not just the failure to close out games but the abject failure of not coming from behind to secure anything at all. Once we go behind that’s it – curtains and has been for a very long time in the league.
Hitch. My concern been that anyone having a football brain could see this coming weeks ago, in some cases months, Badger asking what do we expect from a manager that gets the job. proper control of his playing staff, accountability of his coaching staff, and backing from the board, from what’s been going on of late been far from that. Sherwood must have been up against some back stabbing by players , and upstairs, albeit he did some crazy moves in playing footballers,out of position. I’d like a manager that stands no nonsense and throw a boot at a player shirking in his responsibilities. That’s not a lot to ask for when you pays your money.
Agreed Bill on most fronts. Not sure about the players – he may have upset a couple if the new French signings but reckon most of the players were probably behind him given the Twitter comments after his sacking.
For me I lost hope when Sherwood came out with that garbage in the press conference after the Blues game – if he was trying to be funny it didn’t work!
We just don’t really know what went on in the transfer window during which TS came out in support of buying The French players stating ‘it’s the nearest in intensity to the PL and the players should be able to quickly adapt’ or words to that effect. Also the players we bought although young seemed to be highly regarded in France. It was Sherwood who came out with the Moneyball quote – no one else and the consensus on here at the time was that he was building his ‘not my fault’ defence!
Don’t know what to believe anymore. The only fact is we’re 20th and staring down a very deep and black hole.
It should be said that all the twitter comments were from the young British players – most of whom had been called up to the bench or seen game time under him. As for the dressing room as a whole I find it hard to believe he still had the backing of most of the players towards the end.
Fair enough Marvin – the point is we’re all speculating on what has really happened. If he did lose the dressing room then it’s his responsibility – after all he was paid a lot of money to manage the team.
A very good point to make. If the rumors are true that their was a bust up on the training grounds plus the hyper moody way some players have been playing these past few weeks you do have to wonder. I would have to say Tim Sherwood was only concerned with Tim Sherwood though.
Don’t do Twitter or Facebook Hitch so I wouldn’t know, it’s just annoying a club like us being down trodden by people not caring, I’ve lost the will now on what happens, preying for a miracle.
You and me both Bill.
Wouldn’t pay much attention to ‘social media’ – players only have interesting things to say when they’re retired [or about to be-] and have ghost-writers put juicy bits in to sell their autobiographies.
When you hear how little contact most players seem to have with their managers day-to-day at almost every club, you have to wonder whether any of them actually ‘know’ anything at all!
Well – looks like Richards is getting a 3 game ban. Right now we need him but I hope any manager coming in strips him of his arm band. He has done himself no favors by losing his cool these past few weeks and if it wasn’t this he surely would have picked up a red card this weekend.
Poyet reportedly set to take over at AEK Athens in Greece, I don’t know why people were worried. Baseless “sources”. Being linked to another Ligue 1 manager, EA Guingamp’s Jocelyn Gouvrennec. Pretty impressive 43% winning rate for only managing them since 2010 and La Roche Vendée before that.
It looks like Remi Garde not coming, 3 of his staff are in work and Villa not paying compensation or something to that affect, you might end up with my Dad Pearson, oh happy days,
I’ve heard about the snag in for Garde, but haven’t heard anything about not paying compensation, Lyon doesn’t want them to leave, but if we paid up the compensation and lets be honest, Lerner’s not had a problem paying compensation for managers, just ask Birmingham City, then we’ll get him.
Is Pearson not glamorous enough? Just like Pulis and Alardyce? Wake up people; we’re in deep shit!
Has nothing to do with glamour. Has everything to do with who’s set up best to work with the system we have, and Pearson, Allardyce, Pulis, your average Premier League managers don’t work well with European/American systems. Rodgers didn’t do it at Liverpool, and he worked well at Swansea being in full control. Pearson had full control at Leicester, he’ll have little to no control over who comes in football wise. We need someone experienced in the system we’re using, not someone Premier League experienced, which is an incredibly overrated concept. The best managers in the league aren’t British.
‘The best managers in the league aren’t British’ – No they’re not Andrew, but they do have years and years of Premier League experience, so you’ve contradicted yourself somewhat. What makes those guys ‘average’ in your opinion? This is not rhetorical; I’d be interested to read your reasons…is Alan Pardew ‘average’? Is Poccetino better than Pardew? Is Klopp better than Monk? You will probably answer ‘yes’, but what are the reasons?
League experience isn’t a must have anyone. Most teams are now or beginning to structure themselves where a club can easily remove a manager without having to start from scratch – hence the rise in a more European model of directors and hierarchy. This isn’t a bad thing, but from what I can see most British managers are struggling to adapt to the new world in the ever changing Premier League. There is a reason why most British managers are in the lower leagues, they can bring a team up but how many ever remain in a job for longer than a season, maybe two? For instance, Big Sam got the chop at West Ham for Bilic – questionable given they were not doing bad but look at them in the table now.
As for your comparison, Klopp has managed at a higher level and has more honors than both Monk and Pardew. So I personally rate him higher than both regardless of only being in the league for a month. Monk has done well, but a person could also argue Pochettino also has the Europa League to contest with – more games, more man management.
But they didn’t come in with that experience. Mourinho and Wenger being the obvious big two didn’t come in with Premier League experience, and took over the league. Klopp has proven himself on a much bigger scale than Monk ever has, and what makes them average? The fact they’ve never really done anything incredible. Yes it’s some feat to manage a Premier League side, few managers in retrospect get to do that, but we don’t need average, they’re the usual managers you get when you’re okay with steadying a ship and nothing more, they’re boring, defensive and often use the same tactic every game.
The fact is Ponchettino, Klopp, and the likes of Bilic, and such are improving sides and are growing with the league. The obvious sight is that these managers people continue claiming we need aren’t growing along with football.
Also the thing is, I don’t think Pardew or Monk would do well with us, we’re not a defensive/quick counter attacking side like them, we can’t do it as we don’t have the personnel. They wouldn’t work in our European style system playing American moneyball tactics with the kinds of players we have.
A lot of footballing snobbery going on take Pulis for example he does what he does well.
Higginbotham on talk sport yesterday singing his praises how creates camaraderie and how players know exactly what is expected of them and are not expected to do things beyond their capabilities.
He also went on to tell how many clean sheets Stoke kept, ok they may not be pretty but it’s effective and if you’re on a budget you have to cut your cloth to suit.
He then expanded on clever tricks he installed in them on the training ground such as making a run from corners taking your marker with you while another player blocks him by running across his path giving you a free header.
Basics yes but basics we’ve been missing for years.
Well it is interesting to see how one-sided the British media is and amazing to see how quickly any sort of journalism is thrown to the wind. Motive – it is possibly that is only being thrown out there to make people bet? A move abroad will do Poyet good though.
Heard the Gouvrennec rumor last night – apparently the French Klopp and the “best young coaching prospects” according to some articles I read. I personally don’t know much more than that.
Heard he was one of the most exciting prospects in French management. Being able to keep Guingamp mid-table, is also quite impressive. He got them promoted to Ligue 2 in his first try after them getting relegated the season before and hiring him, then Ligue 1 the year after, won them the Coupe De France in 13-14, barely got knocked out by Dynami Kiev last season in the Europa League so he’s gotten them to Europe within 4 years.
Two words: Alain Perrin.
To be honest I’m starting not to care maybe that’s what Lerner wants so we all curl up and decide that we don’t care,doesn’t matter what position we finish just as long as we all turn up sing Yankee Doodle dandy watch us get stuffed 10 nil and still come next week.As for the money ball it’s fuckin useless if you buy all your players young,up and coming your not going to get very far with inexperienced players.IMPO you need a good mix of established,experienced and young players to balance a team.Im hating what the club has become and what Lerner has done.We are the laughing stock of the premier league with no football savvy blokes onboard just fluffy money making scarlet pimponells who use the manager as a scape goat when it goes wrong.We will soon be Leeds.utv
Moneyball isn’t just buying cheap or young talent and selling them for a profit – sure this can be part of it but what club hasn’t done this since the beginning of the game – but it has more to do with how clubs evaluate and scout players. Less traditional, more in-depth, and I would assume most major clubs have been using some form of it for a number of years now.
We can discuss a new manager all we want but as long as Lerner is the owner the only two things that will change from the previous three managers are
1, the managers name
2, we will be relegated.
I know it’s been said before but any decent self respecting manager will go know where near Villa as long as they have to buy into Lerner’s austerity and contempt of fans.
Different name but same dross served up by Lerner.
We are a laughing stock and can no longer be considered a big club.
We are the new Wigan.
Bring on relegation it’s our only hope.
We know Ted – you’ve posted the same thing about 5 times so far 🙂
Sherwood put and apparently Clark, Okore and Traore in for tomorrows game.
Couldn’t they all have played against Swansea then?
I said at the time that Tim’s team sheet was a good as a resignation letter.
Christophe Galtier linked to Villa if we can’t get Garde. Be amazing.
Oh wow, missed that rumor – I still think it will take a lot to convince him to leave mid-season, but if that is even an option then I can’t wait to get things going.
It’s only the sun so it’s probably false, but there were claims in 2014 we wanted him. As did Newcastle. I have my doubts we have a chance to get him, but it does seem we want someone from Ligue 1. At least it should stop the awful rumours of random prem managers. Although I doubt the Pearson one goes away.
Is this Jean-Paul’s son? (joke).
Seriously, what makes him so good, apart from winning the French league cup?
Same reason Bordeaux’s manager is so good, despite consistently losing their best players, he keeps them relevant, he’s tactically astute, and that they’re 5th without a player scoring more than 2 goals in that side. Also has done quite well in Europe with that side. Oh and I so hope he brings Ruffier if he comes, an incredible goal keeper. Ridiculously underrated, almost as good as Lloris. He plays 4-2-3-1 like I wish we would. Averages 1.59 points per game, 44% win rate, 29% loss rate. He took a very down and out Saint Etienne side who have a very good history in 09 and made them relevant again, sounds like something Villa would want. They were nearly relegated and probably finished off before he came along.
His football’s also free flowing, attack minded, and being a defender himself, no slouch in organizing them.
Would be a massive risk, which could see AVFC sink without trace. We need a safe bet now, because to put it bluntly, we are in deep shit. We need someone to keep us up, then pray the club is sold as a PL club in the summer, where we can get someone long term and take a risk with the types of people you’re mentioning. There no point getting someone like that in now, because Lerner isn’t here for the long term any more. The sooner the club is sold the better. The club is in limbo, and this could cost us PL status. We’re ‘driftwood’ basically. Very sad…
just hope we dont do a groundhog day with a large section of our fans calling for moyes tonight i firmly believe the only way out of this is with a bit thinking out of the box appointment
I know one thing, this Remi Garde saga is starting to do my nut in. He either wants the job or he don’t – shit or get off the pan.
Looks like Kev Mac might be putting Kovak and N’Zogbia in the frame for tonight and I thought we had no experience in the squad.
We will prob end up with McDonald that would be a laugh
But not a shock.