I think I’m really glad I didn’t watch this game, as some of the comments I’ve been reading seem really toxic towards Dean Smith and the players.
You can understand why though when you concede around twenty eight shots against a team that’s struggled all season at home.
Good grief, that’s an effort every three minutes, yet apparently the vast majority were in the first half!
All I heard of the game was WM’s last ten minutes of their commentary and it sounded like the same sort of thing we’ve heard for months: we give the ball away far too easily and just can’t defend.
There was no mention of lack of effort, direction or tactics, but I’ve seen these very things often mentioned in the comments.
Apparently El Ghazi suffered a bit of a dig in the face and used it as an excuse to get off the pitch, only for Grealish and Mings to tell him to hurry up about going off?
I’m confused, but it doesn’t sound good either way.
There were also plenty of accusations that the players were treading carefully to avoid getting injured for the cup final. If so, that’s a disgrace when we’re in our position.
Then, someone apparently tweeted in the Beeb commentator’s name that there had been a punch-up in the tunnel between Dean Smith and John Terry, but the Beeb have said this is false news.
Add in that Dean Smith apparently looked like a broken man on the touchline, with him asking “what’s going on here?” and looking totally devoid of any way to sort things and well, none of it sounds good does it?
The trouble is, when you read comments you often get to see heat of the moment type stuff and frankly total bias, so you have to take it all with a large pinch of salt.
Yet Smith’s own comments are worrying;
“My feelings are one of embarrassment, I suppose. The performance was dreadful highlighted in the first 20 minutes. Players who last week you’d said put in good performances were poor today,”
“The thing that hurt me the most was a lack of fight, particularly in the first half. I thought Watford (away) was bad but today was on a par with that.”
“They were poor today. It’s not about me, it’s about them. They’ve let themselves down.”
He was obviously fuming and rightly so, by the sounds of it, but this seems a change of tack in the way he normally comments and he’s obviously feeling the massive pressure that Premier league survival fights bring.
Combine this with the fact that many fans are saying that our performances are overall going backwards, with little sign of the team learning and I really think it doesn’t bode well.
I suspect if we don’t pull off a decent result in the next two or three games, the clamour for Smith’s head will seriously grow.
Me, I strongly think our position is just down to the players not being good enough.
It seems Smith also said that some players have played themselves out of the Wembley game and I’d guess he might have been talking about El Ghazi.
If it’s more than just him, you have to wonder who could come in to replace them?
Lansbury, Hourihane et al?
I doubt it. which stems back to what I’m saying.
We’re playing very close to our best available eleven.
And still can’t cut it against Southampton.
For what it’s worth, I think without a massive turnaround we’re pretty much already relegated.
And I’m gutted.
I’m just despondent, I’m afraid.
I totally agree with you Badger this current team is just not good enough for the Premier League. I struggle to find what benefits JT is bringing to the club. Dean is also unable to kick this team into shape and l also fear relegation is staring us in the face.
You were spared by work Badger.
El Ghazi got a wack in the face and fell down off the pitch – he then rather theatrically (after a minute or so) rolled back onto the pitch just inside the touch line. Villa had been awarded a corner and Grealish went over and seemed to suggest that EG should crab sideways a couple of feet to be treated and allow the game to continue. Eventually he did and then decided he’d had enough and trotted off to the dressing room – even the commentators were surprised he couldn’t continue.
Compare that with the Southampton lad who came back on with his head swathed in bandages after an accidental elbow from Nakamba – says all you need to know,
Disgraceful performance. Only Grealish, Samatta, Mings and Reina came out of it with pride – the rest a pile of dog ****.
On that basis we should start with those four and seven from the U23’s next week.
Badger
The trouble with modern day football is the hysteria. Unfortunately I think we are fickle. We so wanted to believe that we would secure 17th or better this season. We saw £130m+ spent and assumed that it would secure our position in the premier league. There is almost a feeling of entitlement because we are Villa.
The trouble is we are just are not that good.
But, I’ve said this before and I will say it again, we are improving. Look at the catastrophe when we were relegated under Learners reign. He asset stripped Villa and that team which was relegated, was atrocious.
We then endured the Dr Xia financial splurge with out financial back up.
Now we have Sawiris and Eden. I am confident under their long term ownership we will succeed. I believe we will be relegated. But this time the team going down will have a core that can be built upon for promotion. Yes Grealish, McGinn and Mings will be sold. But their sales should balance the books for a year and allow us to invest wisely. This means that with the core of an excellent Championship team. I fancy our chances. Next time around we will comeback to the Premiership with a team that knows each other. Instead of splurging money on a new team it will be spent on a few key players. In essence I expect us to follow the Burnley model. And yes I would give Smith more time.
Do you feel this is a realistic view?
I certainly think along those lines Sid.
I’m not at all convinced we’ll lose all of our big three players though.
I think we’re in a better place than we were when we last went down because we have a much better structure and stability now.
How good it’ll prove to be in the long term is a different question.
I can’t decide if I think we’ll be the Man U of the championship and stay up after getting promoted or if we’ll bounce like the Baggies.
The latter seems more likely to me, if we were to get promoted at all.
It’s a very tough league.
The big question for our owners, is where do you lay the blame if we get relegated this season?
Player procurement or management? Or are both innocent and it was just a step too far this time?
Purslow will decide that one, no doubt.
The problem is Smith is in the foreground and Suso is in the background, so I know who’s favourite to get the bullet, rightly or wrongly.
Disappointing but interesting times, I feel Sid.
Sid – I can accept the players aren’t good enough individually to keep us up – we over performed last season with an ageing squad and it was always going to be a challenge. What I just cannot accept is the lack of passion, effort and giving everything for the cause.
Collectively we were disgraceful yesterday and that’s unforgivable.
I agree we are not in the disarray that followed the Learner years and that is a big positive and I do have some sympathy for Smith. I am not calling for his head, nor do I think sacking him now will achieve anything, but I do think our owners will look for someone else at the end of the season.
At the end of the day it was the players (with the exception of the four previously mentioned) that let themselves, Smith, the club and the fans down yesterday.
I feel mostly for the away fans – they sang their hearts out and supported the team brilliantly as they always do – the club should give them their money back!
Player attitude comes from the way the club is run. If the players don’t believe in the manager and coaches they end up not respecting them. If Smith and Terry can’t galvanise this squad they need to go sharpish. I just don’t know any one who could replace them at this point who could get organisation and fight into the team quickly.
I think we are heading down with Bournemouth and Norwich.
Cheers, Hitch.
This is week in week out, it’s groundhog day!!…I think Smith should be sacked now, he’s out of his depth. As you say Badger, who’s Smith going to bring in if he’s dropping half of the chumps who couldn’t be bothered today.
It looks like we’re going straight back down and we’ll lose Jack and McGinn and that’s just for starters, mind I think there’s only Heaton to add to those two!!!
What is going on at AVFC for goodness sake!!!
Badger, you are aware it was 2 -0 , and the irony was our goal keeper was out playing centre forward and we had no goalkeeper. I can say that Smith is ready to drop he looked ill and never stopped shaking his head, I think he now knows its only time.
Bloody hell, of course it was!
It must be something to do with the fact that I just stopped listening when they got the second, because my mind had gone numb and I had to concentrate on driving on the M6.
He’s certainly gone for the players tonight but its the act of a desperate man who knows he has no answer. Smith isnt a premier league manager, never was. The club should have been ruthless in December – Rafa is / was gettable and I believe he with a transfer window would have got us enough to get over the line. Ironically, Soutampton did a similar thing when they binned off Adkins years ago to get Pochettino and surprise, they havent been out the PL since.
I think the club will stick with Smith (wrongly IMO) even after our upcoming relegation – and he’ll end up going 10 games or so into next season when we find ourselves struggling in the bottom half of the championship having lost Jack Mcginn and Mings.
* I do think last week was the final nail – that goal has drained everything out the players. Bit similar to the Leeds Home game in the 18/19 season – we lost it from an error in the last kick and then went on a horrendous run of form for nearly 2 months. Think the same will happen here and we’ll finish 19th. Infact it honestly wouldnt surpirse me if we didnt win again until a few games into next seasons championship campaign.
People say poch would not come to villa,I think if he given assurances that he can build a team to challenge the big six and investment will be there with youth team as well he would come after all look at villa’s attendance with a struggling team.think what he could do. I think our owner’s would invest better than spurs. But that’s just my opinion and maybe we’re just going to be another run of the mill avg championship team.
I don’t know why I’m so annoyed about yesterday’s result. After all, I expected us to lose and predicted 3-1 defeat. I think it was the manner of defeat being the main reason. Smith blamed the players for not showing up and it wasn’t the first time this season. You would think that playing in the greatest league in world football and for most of our team, this is their first time in the top flight. Why then are we talking about motivation being the issue. Players like Mings and Grealish are always up for it. Therefore we have too many players who are not worthy of the shirt because the least we should expect is 100% determination. El Ghazi typifies this with the only determination shown yesterday was his keenness to get off the pitch.
Smith was angry yesterday but it’s his job to pick the team and motivate them to put in a shift, so he failed too. Personally I would punish the players who didn’t put a foot in, by excluding them from the final. What kind of example does it show to the younger players and those on the fringes that you get rewarded by playing shite!
i looked through all your reflections on the game and current situation. i wasn’t gonna post mine as i have nothing constructive to contribute. but what i will say is dvilla has it pretty much spot on. we are not good enough and are worst in the league on the field where it matters. norwich maybe bottom and didn’t we beat them twice. but that doesn’t mean shit, they are still a better side than us. but since last season we have closed that gap.
i have known all season we would be touch and go, below trapdoor or just above. sacking smith would only put us back. he has assembled a good group of players. BUT they are not ready premiership players individually and most important not even collectively good enough.
i also believe the three at the back takes away from midfield and it doesn’t strengthen the defence one bit like most think. it does help the wing/full backs but one extra cb is one less in the engine room in midfield. also when a team like saint attack us and press us high, we can not get out. we have no outlet at all (except grealish)
i watched the game i thought we were passive until we made a formation change, looked like they were saving themselves for next week cup final. but saints were pressing us high and i don’t think we could get through the press and acceptable the inevitable. when we had another midfielder and one less cb we did manage to break past the press more. but the game was lost before the change. you can not chase soton they love countering and they were missing 3 or 4 decent players too.
i watched the boxing and would have correctly predicted that result had the referee not stopped the fight to deduct a point of fury for nothing in the 5th. he bought time for wilder, who looked off the pace some what. wilder must have hit fury back of his head 7 or 8 times and no warning. looks like referees are also biased in boxing too. can’t wait for var introduction lol good result for fury thou. he said he would go for the knockout and he didn’t disappoint.
I wonder if Smith is too nice. To succeed in many areas of life you need to be a bit of a b4stard, not everyone’s best mate. Smith strikes me as a lovely bloke, but sometimes you need to scare the living bejesus out of the squad to shake things up and keep players on their toes.
I’ve sometimes thought the same.
So who plays the bad guy, if we’ve got one?
Maybe JT?
There’s no doubting if you’re too nice, some people will take the piss.
I’ve decided I’m ready for the funny farm, lastnight I decided to watch the fight and drink myself silly, found the channel to watch it on and waited till I doze off, woke up in the second round and got excited seeing furry winning in most of the rounds till the end. They razed both arms up and said to myself another draw , got up this morning and found out Furry won in the 7 th, I’d been watching last year’s fight, OK I’m ready for the funny farm…
Bill, 12pm last night I found a stream for Fury and Wilder. About round 8 my missus said you do realise you’re watching the last fight and the re-match doesn’t start till much later! So that’s two of us for the funny farm. 😒
That made me chuckle Bill 😀
Oh good, Holte I cannot stop laughing bout it, I should have known because he had flab around his waist. But when the news said this morning Furry had won I hadn’t a clue what I did. Too much whiskey,
I can’t even blame whiskey. Thought I had landed on a great stream. At least it wasn’t a re-run of the Villa game. 🤐
The really stupid thing is that if West Spam lose to Liverpool tomorrow we’ll still not be in the relegation zone.
As I said earlier, there are some really poor teams in the EPL – and we’re one of them.
Anyone want to guess how many points to stay up – well less than 40 is my view.
Yes, I’ve just been looking at the table and finf it difficult to believe we aren’t in the bottom 3 yet.
If we’re crap, what are those below us like?
How many of you can see the match against West ham at end of season being the premier League cup final winner takes all. I just hope we can get at least 3points clear before but it could then be down to goal difference. And we are away too😭😵😵
Roy, I’m dreading it!! My next door neighbour is a Hammers freak. I’d never hear the last of it.
Right now i’d take a must win game at West Ham. We’d most probably screw it up but the rate we are going we’ll be down before then anyway!
Was it on here or elsewhere, where I read someone said we should do what Watford did, in sack the manager and look for the new manager bounce?
3 losses and 2 draws in their last 5 suggests that’s not quite going to plan for them.
I’ve just been looking at this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._managers
and more specifically the win percentages.
It seems to me 40% is required in the Prem for a decent return, with maybe 45% or more in the Championship.
I’m not sure what the list says, apart from RDM’s record was terrible.
We only won 1 in 12, yet drew 7.
Fine lines…..
I found it interesting anyway.
Hey, it’s Sunday evening and I always get bored on Sundays 🙂
Badger, if we’re going to escape then we have to make a run of decent results over the last 5 or 6 matches. Getting a run early is hard to maintain and teams get dragged back.
Assuming Norwich are down (harsh but probably true) then there are 4 other teams, apart from us, scrambling for 16th / 17th; West Spam, Watford, Brighton and Bournemouth.
Given that something around 35 points will probably be good enough to stay up it’s unlikely any other team will be dragged back now.
I suppose it’s all to play for – we can only hope that McGinn coming back is our trump card because the team I watched yesterday couldn’t beat 11 dust bins 🙂
Well, Hitch, as I said yesterday, I thought we were down.
But the table has given me a glimmer of hope.
I just can’t call it definitively, but agree, I think the team in 17th will have very few points compared to the average.
There’s a lot of very average and poor sides in this laegue.
That, plus the top couple of clubs just don’t lose much.
Don’t think this year will be less than the average myself – Watford in particular have a favourable fixtures list plus they still play West Ham which effectively means we are in the bottom 3 regardless of what happens in that game.
I think 37 is probably the target (4 wins).
The problem is our run in is pretty horrendous. Liverpool, Everton and Leicester away are all write offs so we’re looking at 4 wins out of the remaining home games plus Newcastle away and West Ham on the last day. Given the home games bar Palace are all against top half sides and we’ve bottled every single game against top half sides all season, I don’t see a way out. We’d suddenly have to start seeing games out when neither Smith nor the players have shown not once ounce of in game management ability all season. Barring some miracolous turnaround, 19th looks a certainty to me. We’ve regressed if anything since August – McGinn coming back is a boost obviously but we werent winning with him in the team early in the season so I see no reason why that would suddenly change.