I admit to having stopped watching after Leed’s second goal; it seemed pointless putting oneself through further agony!
Love him or hate him, Bielsa is undoubtedly an exceptional coach with far more experience than Smith and JT put together and I thought that last night it showed. He set the team up to attack our weaknesses and defend our strengths adding a phenomenal work rate and energy – it remains to be seen whether they can maintain such a high tempo for the whole of the season.
The Sky pundits will, no doubt be creaming themselves.
But enough of Leeds
We were a distant second best on the night, lacking organization, energy, cohesion – back to being a group of individuals rather than a team; epitomised by Grealish falling back into old habits of holding the ball too long and thinking he had to win the game by himself.
Watkins seemed isolated up front and there was a clear disconnect between defence, midfield and attack – it was almost as if they were trying to play exactly the same way as against Liverpool assuming that Leeds high pressing game would leave gaps at the back to expose with long balls – Leeds, however do not, like Liverpool, play a high line looking for offsides.
It would be wrong just to single out Grealish though. Cash had a poor game; being caught out of position a number of times and diving in high up the pitch allowing Harrison free range on the left side where much of Leeds attacking play originated. Harrison had Cash on toast all night which repeatedly pulled our defence out of shape creating space in the middle for Bamford.
Mings lost his cool as evidenced by trying to pick Bamford up by his shirt, although understandable to a degree, given Bamford’s ‘previous’ with the Villa and he did appear to make a lot out of incident after stepping on Ming’s foot. Trezeguet worked hard as always but seemed to revert to his old habits of aimlessly lapping Villa Park. McGinn faded, Barclay really didn’t influence the game at all and Luiz seemed at times to get caught in no man’s land.
Ironically, I thought Targett played well, keeping Costa quiet (he seems to have benefited from having Barclay play the number 10 role – or is that my imagination?) and along with Martinez, Konsa and Watkins probably escapes any criticism.
In the same way as four wins don’t make us a top four team, neither does one loss, no matter how disappointing, make us a poor side. Liverpool, Manure and Citeh have all suffered big losses this season which might just prove to be one of the most open for some years.
I do wonder whether the lack of crowds is a factor – top sportsmen do feed of crowd energy.
No game now until Sunday when it’s another tricky fixture against a good Southampton side; will this provide a clearer picture of how our season might unfold?
Smith got one thing right – sit back on our laurels and we’ll get a bloody nose.
I didn’t think Cash was too bad. He was left to do far too much on his own though.
I suspect Trezeguet was under orders, as he does normally backtrack.
At the end of the day, we played into their hands by taking it to them. We showed naivety and should have tightened up and sat back more as it clearly wasn’t working from early on.
Wolves showed how to beat Leeds and I wonder if our lads actually watched that game?
I really don’t think Leeds are a very good side, but they do work you to death and it gets results.
I’m not going to be bitter about it though and your title is spot on Hitch.
Quite simply they were by far the better side and deserved it.
I’m gutted that Bamford got a hat trick though. I think he’s utter rubbish, yet we made him look real class.
He’s on five goals now, isn’t he?
You can’t argue with that.
Oh, I thought Watkins didn’t look very good, as much as he worked hard, but that’s what you get when you don’t get the striker into the game. Again.
That’s a long running issue that cripples strikers at the Villa and we need to sort it. We’ll still be moaning about strikers in years to come if we don’t.
I thought Cash was our best player in the first half. Unfortunately he wasn’t getting much help and Savage was critical of McGinn for not tracking back. I thought that it should have been Trezeguet who supplied the cover.
Watkins needs more ammunition and unfortunately Grealish seemed to revert to last seasons ‘do it all by myself’ approach. He made that fantastic run just before their goal but instead of passing to Watkins or Barkley I think it was, he took the shot when in a difficult position to score. In fact the Leeds players obviously allowed him throughout the game to run into a cul-de-sac before stealing possession and countering. If only he could learn when to play the pass, he would become a world class player!
Now I have calmed down (slightly) I’m starting to think that no game is a certainty. I’m sure Liverpool fans didn’t think they were going to be relegated after we beat them. Likewise, I don’t think we are going to free fall after last night’s game. I still think we will be a mid table team come the end of the season.
Reading around, it seems some are thinking we should have changed things up.
The question is how can we?
I’ve been on about it for a while, but our only single option is to bring Traore on for Trezeguet.
I suppose we could have bought Guilbert on and pushed Cash further forward, but that’s about it, imo.
Any other substitution brings on an inferior player, in any position you care to mention.
This is why I think we’re in a false position and it’s a bit of a worry, because if we’re being beaten, we can’t do anything about it.
I’m not blaming anyone for that, we’ll get closer next season.
But until then, I’ll be happy if we’re near the top of the table while still expecting us to finish lower middle.
Villa last night weren’t bad they were incredible shocking did they think we were back in the championship no because it might have been 8-0 no we were terrible no excuses we were crap Aston Villa Warrior VTID
I thought that possibly putting Engels on and reverting to a 3-5-2 might have worked. Trezeguet was ineffective last night going forward so allowing for Konsa to cover Cash’s position would have made more sense. Would Davis have offered a physical presence we were lacking as Watkins was nullified?
We do have options and Smith seemed unwilling to change things even though it was obvious to everyone on here that plan A was getting blown apart.
Doesn’t really matter however as the game is over and everyone at VP needs to learn from it.
I can see that my reading of the game isn’t necessarily the majority view.
I stand by my comments that Cash over committed against Harrison and there were a number of time he dived in on the halfway line and was skinned. I agree he didn’t get the cover from Trezeguet and Smith failed to make any defensive changes that might have helped.
I also agree that we only seem to have 12 players to pick from with little alternative. To that extent the depth of our squad has to be a concern – no way can we play the same side week in, week out which is what Sir Ron was able to do in ‘81 – I seem to recall he only used 13 players all season!
cash like the rest of them were given tactics to press the ball, that means not to retreat but to meet the ball carrier and tried to take the ball or to make him hurry or misplace his place. its aggressive way to defend and comes with risks like being beaten like you described.
trez had to press higher and he did lots of pressing, but together they failed to turn the ball over enough, leeds played through our pressing and that meant they were able to get at our defenders, like cash and the other back four.
pressing is sometimes not the answer and holt and badger pointed out. sometimes when you come across a fast countering side, or a side that are decent on the ball, its better to drop off deeper to prevent the opposition from getting to your defenders,
also leeds poured forwards and they switch play often,villa ended up second half being overrun. mcgin and barkley have come in for criticism as they were seen to not pick up runners. so hard to point accusing fingers at one or two individuals, we just were not good enough all over, leeds attack with 10 and defend with 10 also their goalie aint half bad with the ball at his feet.
i honestly though before the game, we would counter leeds and they would run out off steam, i did not count on our pressing would be so ineffective, didnt see how leeds could press the whole game and in all areas and none of our midfielders would have much time on the ball in the whole game. notable was the long ball comments, this was cause leeds cut off the short balls and playing short balls was suicidal the way leeds hunted the ball. but they managed to play through our press didn’t they.
I thought Cash had a really good game. He was doubled up on all night, did not have much help from Konsa, and whoever should have been covering the 2nd Leeds player, Treseguet or McGinn, was not doing enough of it.
You have to take your chances at this level. Bamford did. Grealish Konsa and Watkins (from the 6 yard line loose ball and the last shot of the match) did not.
Martinez was unlucky, he palmed the ball away in the one place an off-balance Mings could not beat Bamford for the first. Nothing the keeper could do about the others.
Traoré has been brought on late, both times doing little to get into the game. No surprise he has not shown much, except to me that he is a centre forward and should replace Watkins. Not Trezeguet who still has energy in him when subbed.
Sub par performances on the night from Watkins, McGinn, Konsa and by his recent standards Barclay.
the switch of play i refer too was also targetting Cash and Targett the idea was to isolate the fullback and try to get a two v one on the fullback. they achieved this by dragging over our players and they kept a winger out on opposite side really wide so cash or targett would have to be seperated from his support, then they switched the ball high to them and leeds knew the play /switch was coming so had a extra man quickly join them hence the 2 v 1. good play hard to defend against
OK – so everyone thinks Cash had a good game – if it had been Targett marking Harrison, I don’t think the views would have been quite as conciliatory – just my opinion of course. I’m not blaming Cash per se but thought it was his least effective game since joining us.
By the same token I think Targett (who has come in for a lot of criticism) did extremely well in keeping Costa quiet and most of their effective attacking play came down their left side.
I agree with OLL in that we didn’t take our chances but as Leeds created so many more ‘big’ chances than we did, they were far more likely to convert.
i don’t think any villa players had a good game. leeds dominated the ball. our possession was all too rushed. cash did good first half, leeds put their foot to the metal second half. then all the defenders got overrun and all of them struggled. the third goal got me over ventilating. some will say it was a good finish, but it was but the space afforded to him by all the defenders was a joke, i understand a small breeze could have convinced bumford to dive, but somebody has to close him down fully to stop the shot. they all closed him down to a fashion, but left him enough room to switch his stance think about his move and execute it through all the men around him. bad defending if you ask me
I don’t think anyone thinks Cash had a good game as such, Hitch.
It was more that he did well with what he was up against.
At least, that’s how I saw it.
He was picked on to very good effect and if it was Targett, he’d never have coped anywhere near as well, imo.
I find it quite strange that Targett wasn’t picked out, but maybe it’s because he’s more of a liablility and we’re more prepared to help him out?
It’s all pretty academic. They caned us in a similar way to how we caned Pool.
Klopp never changed it up and Smith didn’t either, which is interesting.
Nath, I think Leeds and us bypassed the central midfield, which is what took McGinn and Barkley out of the game. Couple that with Grealish having a shocker by his standards and everything they did worked.
Hopefully we’ll learn from it and adjust quicker if we face similar again.
Going to stop digging now 🙂 🙂
yeah its a good idea i am only just getting over it, it cut me deep lmao
We was too lethargic, the whole team didn’t turn up, I’ll say it again useing full backs to go forward and the balls from the opposition lofted over their heads lost us that game. That’s how we beat Liverpool, and Leeds beat us. A goal down and we capitulated. Hitch your right Cash didn’t play well neither did Targett also add Barkley for running out of steam.I hope Smilh shows them that video as we lost a chance of going in the history book of over hundred years since the last time we won five games in a start of the league.
Bielsa knew that without kalvin Phillips they were weaker physically down the middle which before the game, we thought would favour Barkley and McGinn. So it was clever to use the flanks and stretch the play. The upsetting thing was they were consistent in the way they played and we couldn’t cope or adapt our style or impose our strengths on them.
Smith made one substitution Traore for Trezeguet which was like for like. Sometimes Smith is slow to respond and last night was the first time we have gone behind in a game. Personally I think that Barkley, McGinn, Trezeguet and Watkins were poor so why we didn’t try something new or different I don’t understand.
Southampton up next usually do well against us but they won’t work us as hard as Leeds did. Our players need to up their work rate from last night because it wasn’t acceptable to be constantly overrun. Fitness levels in the top flight shouldn’t be up for debate.
That’s the thing Holte. I’ve yet to see anyone offer something different that we could have done and I include other sites.
Barkley and McGinn, we replace with who? Hourihane? I don’t think so.
We could have brought Hourihane on as well as, but the midfield was being bypassed anyway, so I doubt it would have worked. Plus he’s way to slow anyway, imo.
Trez was swapped out with a like for like, but it achieved nothing and depending on your opinion might have actually made us worse.
Put Davis on for Watkins? We were playing long at times, so maybe.
Davis and Watkins might have been a better bet, to try and make the ball stick up top, but we’d have been weakened elsewhere and the way Leeds were breaking, I’m not convinced.
I think sometimes you just have to swallow the fact that we were outplayed, I’m afraid.
leeds always attack the wings, just as they did against villa, the injury to their midfielder didn’t play any part in a new tactical plan, they always attack the wings both sides. switching of play is also another tactic they employ to isolate the fullback, knowing this and stopping them is two things entirely.
Thing is Badger, what did we have to lose? The game was slipping away from us and keeping to the same game plan and players wasn’t working. Maybe we should have took McGinn or Barkley off and put Davis upfront with Watkins. My gripe is they had all week to prepare yet once plan A fails we’re screwed. What’s the point of having a substitutes bench if we can’t alter our style? Sometimes it’s horses for courses and players do well against different teams and the way they are set up, whereas Davis might have had joy in bringing Watkins more into the game. As for Hourihane, I think he gets a raw deal from a lot of our fans. He can’t be that bad when he gets called up for Ireland. Yes he is lightweight compared to Barkley and McGinn but the physical side wasn’t the problem against Leeds.
The problem was our midfield was totally non-existent.
Given that I’ve often said it’s the single most important part of the team, it makes sense that I think that whatever we did wouldn’t have worked.
We could have tried something, but I wonder what we’d be saying if Smith had tried something different and we actually looked worse?
Well, no, I don’t wonder at all, tbh. He’d be being moaned about more than he already is.
Don’t get me wrong, if there was something I think might have improved us and he didn’t try it, I’d be going nuts.
You’re right, we had little to lose, but possibly even less to gain.
I think it just highlights a major deficiency in our squad, which is we don’t have one beyond our best 12-15 at the very best.
It’s why we struggled so much when we lost Heaton, Wesley and McGinn last season after all.
As for Hourihane, well, he’s Marmite isn’t he? I do think he’s okay for set pieces, but that wasn’t a big part of our game. It’s also undeniable that he gets goals.
But I just don’t see how he’d have added anything yesterday,
We were too busy firefighting, albeit piss poorly for him to add anything, imo.
if you want to dissect what happened Friday i urge you to read leeds fans take on the game. some might be biased, but most are very knowledgeable. one word they used mostly was the intensity and how we couldn’t cope with it, they also compared villa approach to the game to wolves approach. how wolves parked the bus and how we naively thought we could match them. they went on to say only the best teams can try match them, but those that do and fail will get a tough game. they expect teams to park the bus like wolves and the championship clubs and they respected villa for trying to play against them.
iam afraid i have to agree with them, we went toe to toe and we seriously got burnt, honestly should have ended a lot worse than it did. most teams might press you on and off or in certain areas, same when they have possession they aren’t flat out all the time. but leeds didn’t reduce the intensity.we normally take a breather during games and by the end you could see villa players demoralised and basically fooked with all the hard work they had applied just to contain leeds.
nothing major wrong with our system or style of play. we just came across a very good side that out worked us on the night and we couldn’t live with their full speed approach. we had chances to score a few goals and goals change games, who knows what would have happened if we had taken the lead. maybe this result will push the players to improve further.
it was a great game of football. maybe that was our only mistake.i thought we would beat them, i knew they were good. but maybe it was silly to play a open style against them. wolves had the right tactics, but they always play that way. we are not the same as wolves and us trying to park the bus would have affected us more than playing are usual style.
wow soton beat everton and surprise at home they are much better away.
Being reported that Lansbury has turned down an offer from Villa to terminate his contract.
What does that say about the man – who isn’t even in our Premier League squad – happy to take his money but not that interested in playing football?
I think Lansbury’s on £40k a week. You would think we’d have offered him half of that to walk and he’d have got £20k a week at a championship club.
So basically get the same money, but actually play.
Is that enough to uproot your family?
Maybe not, but he’s going to have to do it soon anyway.
I won’t hold anything against him, but blimey, he definitely hit the jackpot coming to us.
Decent player, but not good enough for where we currently are. It’s as simple as that, to my mind.
No more than one ‘bus-queue’ corner in each half. Most teams have worked on countering it – and do not leave unmarked any player who runs out of the queue. It has not led to a Villa goal this season. The corner routine I would like to see again is the Derby corner. Since this goes back to Brian Clough at the Baseball Ground – my apology to younger readers who will never have seen it.
That is the point, it was so effective Derby had used it for the season they won the league before defences got to grips with it – and that when a player could back-pass to a keeper who caught the ball.
One attacker stood in front of the Keeper, 6 others stood widely spaced with their feet on the 18 yard line. As the kicker ran to deliver the corner 3 of the 6 sprinted towards goal, a different 3 each time. The other 3 stayed put for one second then they too ran twards goal. The corner taker (O’Hare) had sufficient control to be able the deliver the ball in front of the first 3 or in front of the last 3 with the same approach. The wide spacing prevented 1 defender from marking 2 attackers. The best defender in the air might find himself marking one of the 3 attackers in the ‘wrong’ wave and the ball going to others.
Several defenders runnig towards their own goal put the ball in their own net.
“The corner taker (O’Hare) had sufficient control to be able the deliver the ball”
Well that’s us knackered from the start.
I’ve forgotten what a well controlled corner looks like when it comes to the Villa.
Come to think of it, it feels like we must have the worst crossers of any club in the league at times.
The Arsenal game has been moved to Sunday the 8th and guess what?
It’s PPV again, the fourth time on the trot.
What an absolute disgrace. As if your average person isn’t already having a torrid time as it is!
Viewing figures are reported as being ‘disastrous’ and the fans have made their views even clearer by donating over £300k to charitable causes instead – not that anyone at the EPL / broadcasting companies seem to be listening.
I’ve been foolish enough to pay for the last two games but that’s it. Villa, Albion and Fulham have four games on PPV. Citeh and Everton’s Games all been on standard sports subscription. Where is the fairness in that? I will donate to a charity like many others are doing instead. No more extra money to Sky or BT from me.