So I’m over my massive disappointment after yesterday’s poor showing.
Actually I’m very sanguine, probably because I saw what was coming and wasn’t at all convinced that we’d win the game.
It still annoys me that we did exactly what we shouldn’t have done, but oh well; it’s in the past.
Which leaves me asking the same question everybody has been asking, in do we keep Bruce or sack him?
I haven’t looked around any other Villa sites yet, but it seems the consensus on here is that he should stay.
I believe that’s sensible.
I know that a few of you won’t agree with that, but as much as I believe he cost us the game yesterday, so it’s undeniable that we’re in a much better position than when he first came to the club.
You might well say that “we bloody well ought to be, after the money we’ve spent”, but if we look at it from a wider angle, has Bruce actually spent much?
I’d have to re-trace exactly who he’s bought, to be honest, to answer that one.
The important part here, is that Bruce has called out the players with a bad attitude (think McCormack) or dropped those that needed dropping (Gabby), where it seemed previous managers couldn’t.
There’s one bloke in charge of the team now and that’s quite rightly the manager, himself.
He needs a chance just for that.
The Birmingham Mail has made a point about how Bruce has gone a long way to restoring the unity between the players and the fans.
I think that’s a very valid point. I’d never known such a bad player/fan relationship in all my years.
But that’s not enough in itself.
I still have major issues with how Bruce sets the side up.
He was way too defensive early on in his tenure, with the personnel he had available, but I’m of the opinion that he saw this was needed, if only to help create stability. I can’t argue with that, if that’s how he saw it.
Lately though, I think his defensive approach has cost us.
Certainly I thought so against Boro and thought so yesterday.
Which really makes we wonder if he has what it takes to push us on.
I’m not convinced.
Yet, even with all my doubts, I think Bruce deserves another crack next season.
We’re going to lose some very decent players, like Snodgrass and Hutton.
(Regardless of any speculation, we will NOT lose Grealish. Xia will not let it happen and I’m willing to take bets).
And we’re going to have to introduce some of the kids on a more regular basis.
Who knows these kids better than Bruce?
And while he might have been reluctant to play them this season, so I think with the constraints we’re under, he will give them more of a chance.
So we go with Bruce on another rolling one year contract.
And he gets until somewhere around November to prove that we can seriously challenge for the Championship title.
We will need to be top two though and that’s where I believe we might have a problem.
Look at the sides that have just been relegated from the Prem;
Swansea, Stoke and West Brom.
You may well think they’re all rubbish teams in the Prem
But they probably have way better squads than ours, when it comes to the championship.
And that’s where I struggle to see how we can go up next season, regardless of who the manager is.
But that’s for next season.
Next season will be very interesting, to say the least.
Otherwise, I’m still not seeing how the site’s running and am struggling to find the problem, if indeed it’s still not right.
I flagged it the to site host and they don’t know either.
I’ve also added a new privacy policy thing to the bottom of the page (look for the “Learn how your comment data is processed” part).
Feel free to check it out, but it’s nothing anymore pervasive than you’d see anywhere else.
Ah, B6, I’ve just remembered.
I owe you some money fella.
Mail me ( look in the “about the authors” part at the top of the page) and I’ll send it 🙂
Badger; I’m in your camp on this for all the reasons you set out in your post.
On spend, I believe Bruce’s net spend on transfers has been in the region if £2.5m and is the lowest in the Championship. Obviously this doesn’t take into account wages for players like Terry and Snodgrass in particular.
Money will be tight again and Bruce has shown that he can attract Prem quality players on loan deals and gas used the loan market pretty shrewdly.
He is on record as saying that he (originally) set us up not to lose when he became manager as he was genuinely concerned that we could have been relegated last season. You make a good point as to whether he can (like Pulis to some extent) change his spots.
It will be an interesting transfer window that will inform us more about next season.
Hitch, if my memory doesn’t fail me, that £2.5 mill is only for this season.
He spent a few bob before that, didn’t he?????
This was 100% Bruces fault, no question, he set the team up to not get caught on the break but this meant sitting back and letting Fulham play their passing game, instead of us playing our game, which in the second half gave them something to worry about but at that point was too late.
We should have approached the first half as we did the second.
To be honest i think Fulham deserved to be promoted as they finished higher and were by and large the better team over the season.
You have to look at games like QPR and Bolton after the Wolves win and ask why the players weren’t motivated enough to keep the pressure on Cardiff, and that to me, is down to the manager.
I never wanted Bruce and still don’t.
Yes without doubt SB cost Villa the game yesterday, it’s clear for all to see that he’s far, far too defensive minded, and to set up with just 1 striker in the play-off semi’s and the final is senseless IMHO. The second semi and the first half of the final were as bad as I can recall; painfully woeful! Obviously it’s SB who sets them up like this, and I feel he’s really lacking in motivational skills.
I really feel for SB given the loss of both his parents just months apart this year, however I’m not sure he’s the right man to take us back to where we belong.
At long last Badger I see the 3 fill in box’s are back to normal, getting on about next season Bruce will have to start useing the young inexperienced players to fill in what he hasn’t got, if Fulham had youngsters so should he. Villa must change its ideas of defending then attacking Second Half of a game. It’s still hurting me from yesterday’s game, it will take a long time for me to forget.I cannot get over that tackle on Grealish, I hope that Prat of a ref doesnt sleep at night knowing he should have red carded that animalistic player.
Two different answers.
1/ Bruce will most likely stay unless poached by one of the clubs just relegated. Nobody on this site seems to have given that possibility a thought, but 3 other chairman will be thinking, who can we hire with a track record of getting teams promoted from the championship? They have fatter wallets with year 1 parachute payments. He may also be expensive to sack, and we may not have a credible alternative ready to sign.
2/ He should go. I would rather see a different form of failure than more of the type we have just seen.
Bruce won’t be expensive to sack.
He’s on a rolling one year contract that runs out very shortly.
But yes, I certainly never considered that other clubs might want him.
It’s a fair point, but I don’t think he’d walk easily.
Bruce will stay, but I have to ask… Does anyone think he can actually do better than he did this season? We’re losing 10 players, 5 starters. Say we still manage to sign Terry and Hutton back. 3 starters are still gone. Sure we’ll get a few loan in’s but we’re strapped financially and I don’t trust Bruce in how we play to know how to play the kids. So, can he actually do better than this season? Not for me. Even with the awful things that happened to him over the last 4 months or so, nothing would’ve changed if they didn’t happen.
That is indeed the question, Andrew.
Personally, I don’t think he can better, or even equal this season.
But I still think he deserves another chance.
Purely because he’s stopped the rot and moved us forward from our lowest point.
That might seem illogical, but I sense there’s a feeling of “fair play” about it.
And it seems I’m not alone in that thinking.
Indeed, I spoke this morning, to a fan who went to the game yesterday and his thoughts were exactly the same.
“We were shit, but we shouldn’t sack him.”
He also said that he thinks Villa fans really like him.
I believe the saying is “go figure”.
While I get some fans can accept him still, just can’t deal with another season of his bull. It’s Lambert 2.0. We go again after we lose, blah blah blah. People question can a new manager like Dean Smith handle the size of our club, Bruce has proven after last season when we didn’t even challenge for a playoff spot after January when he had his team (straight from his fans mouth) and how we failed this season, that he can’t handle the size our expectations of the club. Mine as well give someone new, bright and can actually change the club for the better a chance.
I know most of our fans still want him and I have absolutely no idea why. Why we’re willing to accept failure so quickly and easily. Any other manager that we’ve had and the fans would want them out for the exact same results but because it’s Old Bruce, he’s somehow a special failure and doesn’t need to go.
I’m in complete agreement.
Incredible that anyone would want Bruce to stay. He spent an absolute fortune at this level and achieved nothing. Now we’re going to have to live within our means, we need a manager that: a) has nous of signing young players and scouting beyond his ex clubs / British clubs
b) someone capable of building a style and philosophy like Jokanovic did at Fulham (no point getting rid of Bruce and briging in another one of the dinosaur loser managers like Moyes or Allardyce)
Bruce was always the short term option – it failed, now we need to build for however many years we’re going to be stuck in this league to to FFP hindering us.
I do however think Wyness will be key in keeping Bruce on or bringing in another dinosaur – I just hope to god Dr Tony overrules.
Also, I do wish people would realise the implications of FFP. There isn’t a hope in hell of Terry, Snodgrass, etc playing for Villa again. The gamble has backfired – we will have to cut our cloth now to comply and if a club bids 20m for Grealish we will have to accept (which given the tv money in the PL isnt a great deal anymore). The situation is very bad unfortunately and entirely the clubs own fault for failing to get David Wagner in October 2016.
I accept fans who don’t want Bruce but he hasn’t spent a fortune at this level with Villa – please, at least get your facts right. It was Di Matteo who blew all the cash and Bruce has had to deal with the fall out from that and previous years of overspending.
I fully accept that he has limitations but I firmly believe he has stopped what could have been a Sunderland experience for this great club of ours.
On that basis, I’m prepared to accept his stewardship at the start of next season but he has to get us playing well and consistently well.
On OLL’s point; Stoke have already appointed Rowett, West Brom have appointed confiirmed the appointment of Darren Moore and I think Swansea will stick with Carvaleo (sic) as he had a good record with Wednesday in the Championship.
Hitch, Swansea got rid of Carvello and are looking for a new manager. Wonder what will happen to Ayew brothers now?
It won’t happen, Bruce, and I agree is old hat, but this is business and the board will look back at progress and the devil you know, you try to bring in younger managers with hands tied and we will go nowhere for years, Bruce has one quality that’s getting loan players in and taking chances, I’m understanding what Badger and others are saying that he lost that game on a stupid idea of defending then attacking was the problem, also the lack of introducing up and coming youngsters into our game , Fulham did and we paid for it with the loss of 180 million ,now the fun starts by knowing his faults and putting it right. Give him 6-8 games then consider his fate is my way .
In three transfer windows Bruce has spent c £20m and recouped more than that in sales of players or loan fees so his net spend is actually a negative. In the last two transfer windows his gross spend is £2.5m and he sold players to the value of £12.5m – yet we still finished 4th.
Fans might not like his playing style or even Bruce himself but credit where credits due. The FFP problems are not of his making
Precisely Hitch, give credit where credit due, All I’m saying is don’t jump out of the fat into the fire, give him the chance to redeem himself, we owe him that on getting us to the play offs, its not my way of playing football just lets see if his mistakes can be learnt. 6-8 games will find out.
*Figures according to Transfer Market
remi garde couldn’t handle the pressures at villa. just one example of the club being too big for him to manage. i remember the press conferences he looked and spoke like a little child in front of the headmaster. the players took the piss out off him. probably because they could and didn’t respect him.
steve bruce handles the club expectation very well compared to garde, smith himself spoke last time villa were searching for a manager and himself said he didn’t think it was right time for him, he went on to explain the massive job it is.
whoever manages villa needs to be strong minded and not a shrinking violet, thats all i say on the matter. i will back any manager. if they want bruce out now is the time, not in preseason or middle of the season.
Fair comment Nath. It is more of a gamble to change Bruce now though isn’t it? I’ve no doubt it will be on the Board agenda for discussion – would love to be a fly on the wall.
i think you and bill give very good reasons, not to make any decision on a whim. i understand the opposition to your argument that bruce has failed with the season objectives.
again i really do think smith will be a good villa manager. i can only see one issue and that is he hasn’t had a job with such pressures as he will at villa.
bruce has been under massive pressures at villa and he has taken massive blows in his private life to heap more onto his shoulders. he has never shown this in his demeanour, he has never allowed the outside pressures build on the players.
i just hope this matter will be discussed and decision made well in advance of the season. somebody has a massive job next season. wheeling and dealing and picking out the youth players they feel have what it takes to step up.
In my opinion Bruce has to stay, he has steadied the sinking ship, and that job in itself is a near miracle. In hindsight this club is simply not ready for the premiership…
A strong campaign next season and we could be, but if we are not able to beat the likes of WBA, Stoke, Derby, Middlesborough & Derby then again we are not ready … Lots of interesting games next season.
A new manager coming in during a big upheaval this summer with new coaching staff etc etc. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. We have to let Terry and Snodgrass go because of FFP although it is an opportunity to inject youth and mobility into the team. Bruce knows what upcoming players from U23s could make the grade and he will have already been making plans for another season in the championship just in case we failed. We still are the biggest attraction over any other championship club for players coming in, and that includes 3 relegated clubs. Bruce knows he will have to get off to a good start otherwise he will be out of a job.
Problem is he hasnt used youth at all. Instead of signing that clown Samba, he could have had Sulliman on the bench, why did we need tired old Whelan when Doyle-Hayes has been excelllent in the youth team and so on.
Its unacceptable wastefulness and Bruce is at the centre of it – let him take the time off he clearly needs after a difficult personal year and let someone with the youth, energy and forward thinking vision take over.
I find that, after supporting Bruce all season, I’m not totally against changing managers but only if the right manager is available and it is done sooner rather than later. I also agree with many here that change for change’s sake might be shooting ourselves in the foot.
Perhaps I’ve still got a hangover from losing but I do get the feeling that more could have been gotten from the squad than Bruce is currently getting.
Still happy to go along what the board decides and set myself for another bumpy season.
UTV
No chance of promotion under Bruce next season. We will be severely weakened and there will be strong competition, even more so than this year.
As for give him until November or whatever, why? He has had almost 2 full seasons. This season was the time and he fell short. He will not improve us next season and we will just be bringing in a new manager with no pre season or transfer window.
It’s a big call either way.
It always seems to be give him to Xmas, the summer, etc. Its BS excuses – the constant argument by the pro Bruce brigade was that he was “experienced” and a “promotion specialist”. By now we could have instilled a style of play ready to go up with a young squad – instead Bruce has wasted everyone’s time and money signing players on their last legs like Terry, Whelan and Samba and failed in his short termist strategy
Time to rip up the status quo and go for someone who will utilise our youth squad and is able to pick up savvy value for money signings without using the tired old method of picking up players from his ex club.
We’re at a crossroads again and in need of forward thinking desperately. Problem is IMO Wyness is a dinosaur in the boardroom in the same way Bruce is as a manager. Dr Tony needs better advisors around him.
Yesterday is gone!
Now to the future.
Steve Bruce: Stick or twist: He has brought unity to the dressing room and this cannot be wasted. Remember outlast year in the Premiership. Players having no tantrums and rewarded with tiaras. That culture has stopped. Now SB has unity. Who else was impressed withe the way John Terry spoke about Jack Grealish and Jack’s response to John after the Boro victory. Would a change in manager jeopardise this unity?
Financial Fair Play: I posted yesterday that Dr Xia tried to buy his way out of the Championship last season and it backfired with his appointment of DeMateo. He the gave Steve Bruce significant funds and I do question his buys. Hogan, Lansbury, Bree and Taylor cost significant sums and have not yet come anywhere close to justifying their acquisitions. But, Steve Bruce has contacts and relationships that attract players to our club. Terry, Johnstone, Snodgrass and Grabban were good loans. Could a new manager do better?
One of our own: My dream is for the best 11 players for each position in our team to be the best in the country, all Villa fans, who came through our youth team and U23 set up. In the meantime, look at the commitment yesterday by Jack Grealish. If all 11 from here until the end of time showed that hunger and love for our club, we would have one special football team!
Strangely enough financial fair play and one of own may just be the marriage many of us have wanted to see. Steve Bruce will now have to intergrate a number of U23 players into the first team. Dr Cia and he have spoken about it, but we never saw it to the level some of us expected. Who of these players next year will be given the chance to nail down a place: André Green, Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, Jake Hayes-Doyle, Keinan Davies, Callum O’Hare, Easah Suliman, Jed Steer, Jacob Bedeau and James Bree (I appreciate some were bought in). Here are 9 players looking to make the grade and are not on astronomical wages. Moreover, with limited loyalty left in the game, we might just get the rub if the green in goodwill from those players who step up to the grade.
Us the fans: United we stand divided we fall. To my shame, I recall booing off our own players at half time against Wigan, in Martin O’Neils last season. Why, because I thought we were going to be a top 4 team and had become arrogant. We all have to hold the mirror up and look at our Villa reflection. We are a Championship team with a premier ground and facilities. But the critical ingredient are us fans. We needs to create a unified Villa fortress. Plus, our gate money will determine what the club can afford.
My hope for next year: Jack Grealish stays, Steve Bruce default position becomes attacking focused for all matches and we all unite to create an atmosphere at Villa Park and on social media to inspire our team.
DS, the first season was a write off when he came, so it’s hardly fair to blame him for that.
This season, we were close (albeit simply not good/consistent enough).
I just think November or so because we could then say we’ve given him every chance as a thank you for sorting the club out.
Plus it would at least give a new manager time to assess the players before the winter window.
Of course, it’s not ideal, but I just think sacking him now would be harsh.
That said, I wouldn’t be totally averse to a new manager coming in, but he’d have to be someone pretty special.
Then again, while we might still be a massive draw, who would want to come if we haven’t got a pot to piss in?
I’m not blaming him for that (first season). This team and squad is his and he fell short. If you look back at my posts (OK I don’t really expect you to) I said from the start he would fall short. But this is Villa. Acorns is the charity (you owe them a tenner on my behalf don’t forget with the bet over Wolves). We don’t owe Bruce anything other than a thanks and best wishes. Yes it’s harsh, but he has taken us as far as I think he will do.
The team needs more energy and dynamism. That will come from our youth, and hopefully a management/coaching team that looks to play that way.
Just my opinion and I respect what you are saying.
Ah, DS.
For some reason I thought the bet was with B6?
Anyway, bet paid, mate, with another tenner thrown in + Gift aid = £25 🙂
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You’re a sound man Badger. I’ll do the same.
You too, DS.
At least something good comes out of our bet.
Always happy to lose a charity bet 🙂
SB is far too negative, and to play just 1 striker is football suicide.
It should be attack, attack, attack not defence, defence, defence.
I can’t see him changing, so it’s best if goes IMHO
Be careful what you wish for. Look at the dud managers we’ve had in the last few years. You should only change the manager if there is somebody better (sensible options) out there. I don’t see many. Clubs that keep changing managers (Sunderland) just go from bad to worse. Stability is important. Having said all that, Bruce definitely needs to be far more adventurous. His negativity cost us promotion. Sadly I don’t think it’s in his DNA. But remember we got off to a very slow, weak start this season and were playing catch up. If we can start strongly next term it may be a better picture. Against that though is the lack of spending power. It’s going to have to be the youngsters. Alan Hanson – “You don’t win anything with kids.” ( Cough.)
So – don’t change because it’s risky and we need stability, but Bruce isn’t up to it (negative). You can’t have it both ways.
Having looked at the league for next season, I don’t see why we can’t challenge. It’s much weaker than the season just gone. Our biggest challenge right now is the uncertainty. Does Bruce stay or move on? That needs to be sorted before any rebuild gets under way, I’d like Xia or Wyness to publicly back Bruce as manager for next season or have him sacked by the end of the week, so we can finally move on with planning for the new season.
Looking at the positions, I think it’s only a keeper and defenders we need. Even with the loss of Grabban, We still have Kodjia, Hepburn-Murhphy, Hogan and Davis fighting to be our starting striker. Grealish, Adomah, Green and that young lad O’Hare can occupy our attacking midfield places. While the rest of midfield we have Hourihane, Jedinak, Whelan, Birkir and Lansbury to fill in. Defensively is where we are short, with Terry, Hutton and Samba all leaving we are down to Chester, Elmohamady, Taylor, Bree and Richards. As for our keepers, Steer may be ready but I don’t like having Bunn as back up, don’t rate him. Maybe we could introduce one of the younger keepers, I don’t know.
I don’t think FFP will be THAT much of an issue, as they should have, and Wyness had mentioned, there was a plan in place for both scenarios. On top of losing our loan stars as well as the likes of Terry and Hutton, we have to look at the players coming back from their loans. Gollini, Gardner, Gil and Tshibola don’t seem to have a future at the club, and if we really need I wouldn’t be surprised to Lansbury and Hogan added to this list. So on top of those already gone that’s 6 players we could surely ship out for some decent money, I don’t for one second believe we need to sell the likes of Grealish or Chester to survive, they are the core of a team we need to keep and now add to.
A lot were just panicking and upset over last Saturday, myself included. We didn’t get what we wanted, but it certainly isn’t all doom and gloom. I for one think Bruce should stay, it will be a turbulent enough summer regarding the players, last thing we need is a managerial search added on top of it. Bruce will know what he needs now, can he take us that extra step? I don’t see why not, the league to me looks a lot weaker now.
Keep the faith, UTV.
I wanted Bruce from day one and supported him when most were calling for his head. Now? I think It’s fair to say I’m sat on the fence. Part of me wants him to stay because of the team spirit he installed, the calibre of player he is able to attract, especially in the loan market and of course the contacts he has in the game. Then I look at the tools he had this season, some of his tactics and lack of plan b and I’d rather we looked elsewhere. However……
A big part of me was expecting him to walk after Sunday given what he has been through these last 4 months or so regardless of the result.
If he stays I’ll support him as I would support anyone who manages our club. I may not agree with everything they do but I’d support them.
Whatever happens lets not forget where we were 18 months ago and the mess that the whole club were in. We all knew then it weren’t a quick fix. It’s been proved a number of times money doesn’t but success.
Finally just want to say a big well done to Badger for continuing the good work on here. Again you seem to get by single handily but your commitment and effort to the site doesn’t go unnoticed. Well done.
UTV.
B6, mail me and we’ll sort out that money I owe you for the bet.
Look in the “about the authors” section for the addy (top of the page).
And thanks for the support 🙂
Seconded B6. The bit about Badger, not Bruce 😉
I second that B6 . Keep it going Badger123.