In the previous post, “Nath” made the point about new signings, as follows;
“We expect them to sign for villa and they hit the ground running. problem solved”
And it’s a good subject for discussion in itself, in my opinion, even though my thoughts will no doubt be seen as utterly negative, yet again.
You can’t have positive if there’s no negative to argue, is the way I look at things in this case.
But the fact is that so many of our signings look consistently poor from the off. It’s undeniable, by even the most positive fan and it’s another one of my big concerns.
Here’s my reply to “Nath”;
No, I don’t think anyone expects all of our signings to hit the ground running, at all.
But you would expect some too.
The problem is, it seems to me far too many come here and they struggle.
I could list them, but doubt I need to.
Kodjia is about the only one I can think of, that hit the ground running.
Elphick is a classic example, in that his arrival was much anticipated and appreciated, but he’s been poor and some want him gone.
I’m still convinced there’s something not right at the Villa and it’s why I’m reticent to think we’re certs for promotion.
Question;
Why is Amavi rated by the club as worth £10 mill or so, yet he doesn’t get a game?
Like I said, there’s something not right, imo.
Any thoughts?
Overly pessimistic, or realistic?
I don’t know.
All I do know is, I can’t comply with the thinking that you can only say stuff that’s totally positive.
I have to question everything 🙂
I’m realistic Badger. Have I ever been proved wrong lol 😄
Oohah, have to say at one stage I thought you did most of your post just to get fans to react, but I do agree that you’ve been right to a degree, I also have to say it was obvious the way things went, We might have more of a idea in 10 weeks time.
Very true Bill. IV been a realist it’s easy as a fan to let your heart rule ur head. When I was young a long long time ago I actually believed we would win every game and the league every year. But since IV sort of matured into a cynical old git I can now see the light. It’s been so obvious for such s long time and fans have buried their heads in the sand where IV just stated it as I see it. That dosnt mean to say that one day we will be great again as Villa have always had to go backwards to go forwards. Out of the ashes of the old division 3 came a European Cup and the league title. After relegation in 87 can league cups and 2 runners up spots. Now we have fallen again and tradition says we will rise like the Phoenix from the ashes. Oohagh has spoken !
how many players has bruce signed ????? what is the percentage of his players in the current dressing room. i bet its not 10% how can he be responsible for players like mccormack and tishbola. both were very capable before bruce or even rdm. previously good players for their last teams. but its our managers not getting the best out of them.
BULLSHIT
players not managers have the most affects on results. or performances on the field of play. if a player does not want to play, no manager can wave a wand and get his tactics to win games. score goals. or create. teams are 11 players not always will a team play to how the manager drew it on on the tactic board. i bet it hardly ever plays out the way they hoped. for a start they cant control the opposition players or tactics.
bruce needs time as do the players, pre season and the first 10 games of the season usually dictates how the team will play out the rest of season. our last pre season was a massive one. relegated we needed to organize. we wasted last season it was over after the first 10 games. uphill was a understatement. we were lucky we survived. if they hadnt sacked rdm and replaced with a strong manager like bruce we would be favorites for division 1 not championship this year
Interesting Nath.
“Bruce needs time as do the players, pre season and the first 10 games of the season usually dictates how the team will play out the rest of season.”
This is what I’ve been saying all along.
So you agree, Bruce has 10 games or so? (I said more like 12, fwiw).
i don’t know how long he gets or should get.
my post was apposing ideas. that managers alone are responsible for how a team plays on the field. take villa current situation. bruce will get the team working on first fitness and then how he wants to play this season, teamshapes with ball and without. all this will be done in pre season. a luxury he hadnt had last season, stepping on the villa roundabout,which was spinning out of control long before he stepped on.
i want him to get this time, if like you say 10 games, if he hasn’t improved the club by then,i doubt the owner will remain patient much longer than that.
but if he fails,then we face another season where the manager that started will not have ended the season. we are going to ruin our club sacking managers willy nilly. nothing gets built in football in half a season. bruce isnt the long solution, but he is the immediate answer. anybody can think of a better qualified manager. then they are wasted posting on here they should get advising the DR
Mon always said after 12 games it usually gives a pretty accurate picture of where a team will finish in the league. Effectively if we arnt in the top 6 after 12 games chances we won’t finish there at the end if the season as a rule of thumb. Having said that as we play 4 more games maybe 13 or 14 games may give a clearer picture
Claudia Ranieri didn’t need time. Time is overrated a decent manager should be able to see what is wrong and fix it. We will see what the excuse is next season as Bruce has all Lee season now and wasted most of it going after Terry ffs
Badger, you know in games it takes 20th minute to see how its going to pan out, same in how a team performs in so many games, to me its what players in themselves by having guts to fight to win. problem in our team is having that player that fights.
🙂 spot on bill
having better technical players or players having bigger wages. means bollocks if our midfield gets rough up by hungrier bullying tactics we arent going to create much. if they cant roll up their sleeves. many reasons could answer why villa created little last season. guts and team spirit, togetherness, all could answer why we were crap away from home. leadership on the field was lacking when jed was missing. this shows how lacking we were in leadership. without leadership you cant react quickly to reorganize on the field.
good teams can do this you know, react on the field of play. the players can manage the game themselves but only if theirs a brain cell between them or players that can organize a piss up in a brewery.
Agree as much as I hate to say it we could do with a Robbie Savage type player.
If I understand Nath correctly he is saying the pre-season plus the first ten games sets the ‘standard’ for the season and, by implication, it’s difficult to positively change that thereafter – whatever a club does. On that basis there was little or no chance that Bruce would turn the season round coming in after a disastrous first 12 games. It seems, however, the opposite is true if Blues change of manager from Rowett is anything to go by. Adding to that, I believe it’s generally accepted that buying players in the January window will not significantly change the fortunes of a team.
IF all that is true then I suggest two conclusions could be drawn
1. We can’t yet judge the players Bruce brought in and
2. Beware thinking that changing the manager, yet again, is a panacea.
One final point – Tshibola is held up as an example of a player who has failed to perform – this is not the case. Tshibola had only ever played around 5 games for Reading and was completely unproven – Stamm pulled a great illusion about his ability and ripped us off for £5m. Another hard lesson for Dr. T
yeah that if my total belief. and the rowett point is another good example.
i held tish up as nothing to do with bruce. i pointed early last season how novice tish was he was a massive gamble and one that has backfired. but bruce has nothing to do with that one. also tish might given time turn this around. if he has the desire and fight in him. but its unlikely this will happen now at villa.
I think Rowett is a decent manager. Wouldn’t surprise me if he nicks a top 2 spot with Derby tbh.
the rowett was a excellent point. because zola tried to change the way the scum played. all this even thou thy where really punching above themselves. changing the dynamics drastically during a season is really hard to do. teams bed in many things preseason. zola had no chance of success because the team had grafters and by adding the zola touch, only weakened them by removing their strengths and he had no time to stamp his game. he would have needed his own players. also better quality of players. finally more time to bed in the ideas
Unfortunately for us we havnt really got any grafters. We need a couple of Robbie Savage type players. Or better still Isn Taylor type player who would run through a brick wall for us no matter what the score line is
I’ve always tried to win in any game I’ve played in, football, badminton, to lose got me upset, I’ve yet to see our players get stuck in, they are more likely drop heads and walk away, i honestly think to have a hard man on your side does give other players the will to try harder.if Terry comes to us I think he will bring that confidence to the team, and maybe younger players will benefit from him.
I live in hope.
You say that but there was no person with a bigger winners mentality than Keane and that went pear shaped
there is no excuses = if we are not good enough he will be sacked. simple no algerbia equation needed. a wound up broken watch is correct twice a day.so some clubs and managers don’t need time. tinkerman had a great set of players already there. he simply continued what was already good work ethics and countering football something he was good at and the players. but zola tried to change scum from a style similar to what villa play to wednesday. which needs time and change of personal.
i half hope we do fail, because if we were successful our fans are not ready for the losses we would take in premiership. we should stay are championship level its more comfortable, we can win 50% of games even if we had a shit season like last year. in fact if bruce fails in his 10 games. we will be staying and downgrading so have no option to build a style like wednesday and fulham.
will that stop the moaning hell no same fans will then moan. playing decent football doesn’t win games. sacking managers doesn’t work when they have no time to change what seems to be broken.
time is over rated time i spent less time typing b/s and got a move on my day
It’s about getting a balance between decent football and winning football. If you go back to the days when we win the league at times we played some great attacking football but we also knew how to kill the game and hold onto a lead which was the boring bit.
That is a very fair point Oohah – credit where it’s due 🙂
Thank you kind sir 😄👍
Dr T welcomes JT on twitter!
This has to be the most stupidest signing we’ve ever made. We get nothing out of this Terry gets a win lose. Dr X is as stupid as Lerner
But I disagree with you here – I could name many stupider signings at Villa than JT nor is it fair or reasonable to accuse Dr. T as being ‘as stupid as Lerner’.
From a footballing perspective we will see how JT gets on – the facts will decide – but from a commercial aspect I believe it’s a real coup and will deliver a financial return.
So, JT welcome to VP – you’re a Villan now and will have my support as we strive for promotion back to the Prem
We shall see. He is a leader but so was elphnick and look what happened tgere
Not sure you’re really comparing like for like there Oohah!
There’s only one oohah though
Almost as stupid ss signing Paul McGrath at more or less the same age with dodgy knees and an alcohol addiction….worked out terrible, didnt it?
[Edited]
god was not 30 when he signed for villa
Yes he was born 1959 signed 1989.
McGrath was at his peak in a way when we signed. And he was well managed by the club. He also had decent players around him but his speed of thought was incredible. He rarely ever had to run in a game as he was 3 steps ahead of everyone else and his position was usually spot on
Plus ‘at least’ 8 years in terms of fitness due to dodgy knees and alcoholism! Not to mention the considerable advances in medical science that prolongs a players fitness and playing career!
[Edited. Please don’t Langford]
so john terry will be 37 in december ,same as god was 30 in december 1989, god had in his head and probably only world class player we have had terry was never in same league as god,
Very true. McGraths only weakness was his distribution which was the reason he wasn’t quite in the world class catagory. But as near world class as we will ever get
He was God to Chelsea fans
Ooha mcgrath was at his peak when we signed him? possibly he went from keg to top shelf.
How dare you speak badly of McGrath your banned for 10 years 😓😓
McGrath was 30 not 36. I think he left us about 36
Oohaa just get behind the team and support the club and whoever they sign. You do not know for fact this will not work out. Show some positivity from your your armchair, and don’t give us the old history bollocks… that has gone, so move on.
Of course I know oohagh is never wrong. Have you learned nothing in all your years on this thread 😄
Go on Oohah give it a blast, you should get at least 20 replies, I wager that he gives a bit of security to the team.just wait and see.
Like it Bill – first to respond to Oohah – he certainly knows how to drive debate
🙂
Hitch, he’s a co owner and likes to get posters to respond, he’s done it again 8 up till now, next will be popping in between posts with one line comments , he’s a naughty lad Hitch, but I like it.?…………
Nothing to do with that I had exactly the same views and comments way before I was co owner if you don’t believe me ask Badger
I just don’t get how we can afford £100k a week I thought our budget was only a million. Unless we are getting rid of a load of players
Aston Villa have signed former Chelsea and England captain John Terry, the Championship club’s owner Dr Tony Xia has announced on social media.
The 36-year-old defender’s contract at Stamford Bridge expired on 30 June.
Terry, who won 78 caps for England, played 717 games for Chelsea and won his fifth Premier League title in May.
Villa finished 13th in the Championship last season but Steve Bruce’s side are among the favourites to win automatic promotion to the top flight in 2017-18.
Hitch, just thinking about it with Terry now ours, i bet that alone will bring in extra TV money plus interest in seats, and sales in shirts, got to be a money earner that,
Just heard JTs interview Firstly claret & blue really suits him & loved the way he bigged up the club & supporters, welcome JT UTV
If big you up if I was getting paid a £100k a week Giddy. I just hope we never get him as manager it will be a disaster
What you on about he doesn’t need become our manager to be a disaster in your eyes